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  #16  
Old 12-24-2018, 08:33 PM
Guitaurman Guitaurman is offline
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Originally Posted by JackB1 View Post
Ok I have a similar situation. I just got a SA220 for one guitar and one mic, which works great. However I want to start hosting open mics and you sometimes get duos or even three musicians. Can someone recommend a small simple mixer to use in conjunction with the SA220 and briefly explain how I would hook it up? I’ve never run anything other than the SA220 before. Do I input everything into the mixer and then all those outputs somehow go into the two SA220 inputs?
I sometimes run my Yamaha MG 10XU into my Fishman SA 330. It's so simple to do. Just make sure that your mixer's pan controls on each channel are straight up. Then run an XLR (mic cable) from either the left or right output of the mixer, into the Monitor In input in back of the unit. It is the only female input in the back, so it's the only place the cable will fit. You control the output of the Fishman with the Monitor in control on the front of the unit. This bypasses the preamps and mixer on the Fishman,, so you treat it like a powered speaker and use your mixer's preamps, EQ, and effects.
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:29 PM
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I sometimes run my Yamaha MG 10XU into my Fishman SA 330. It's so simple to do. Just make sure that your mixer's pan controls on each channel are straight up. Then run an XLR (mic cable) from either the left or right output of the mixer, into the Monitor In input in back of the unit. It is the only female input in the back, so it's the only place the cable will fit. You control the output of the Fishman with the Monitor in control on the front of the unit. This bypasses the preamps and mixer on the Fishman,, so you treat it like a powered speaker and use your mixer's preamps, EQ, and effects.


You can use an XLR Y cable from the mixers L/R output channels so that if any of the pan controls are set incorrectly the signal to the speakers are not affected.
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  #18  
Old 12-24-2018, 09:47 PM
Guitaurman Guitaurman is offline
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You can use an XLR Y cable from the mixers L/R output channels so that if any of the pan controls are set incorrectly the signal to the speakers are not affected.
You can, but why bother with a special cable. If the pan is set wrong you'll know it by the lack of signal, and then just turn the pan knob to straight up or pan to the side that your sending to the Fishstick. It's no different than sending the mixers output to a powered speaker. No need to make it more complicated than it has to be. The Fishman is not stereo so either the left or right output from the mixer will do the job of feeding the amp in the speaker.
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  #19  
Old 12-24-2018, 11:07 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Can someone recommend a small simple mixer to use in conjunction with the SA220 and briefly explain how I would hook it up? I’ve never run anything other than the SA220 before. Do I input everything into the mixer and then all those outputs somehow go into the two SA220 inputs?
The Soundcraft EFX8 or EFX12 mixers are fantastic. I'd chose which one based on how many channels you think you'll need, then double it. You always end up using more channels at some point. I use the EFX8 for Solo/Duo/Trio gigs.

Run everything through the mixer first, then run out of the mixer to the XLR input of either channel 1 or channel 2 of the SA220. There is no need to run into both channels of the SA220, and it might even cause issues. Edit: you can bypass the Fishman Pre's by running into the monitor in. That should work better.

The EFX8 and EFX12 have great EQ, Pre's, and FX. Set the EQ on the SA220 flat as you'll have more control at the mixer. High/Mid (with sweeps)/Low vs. just High/Mid/Low on the Fishman.

With a mixer, you can place the SA220 wherever it makes the most sense in the room, and have the board within reach to make any adjustments.

If you can, find a good sound person to teach you how to properly use a mixer. It will be worth its weight in gold. Ask them about gain staging, EQ, how to use negative EQ, mid sweeps, and FX. Have them teach you on your gear preferably in an empty venue if you can get access.

They probably won't charge you much if they don't have to haul anything, and you will get a great hands on experience. Best of luck with your setup!
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  #20  
Old 12-25-2018, 08:05 AM
JackB1 JackB1 is offline
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The Soundcraft EFX8 or EFX12 mixers are fantastic. I'd chose which one based on how many channels you think you'll need, then double it. You always end up using more channels at some point. I use the EFX8 for Solo/Duo/Trio gigs.

Run everything through the mixer first, then run out of the mixer to the XLR input of either channel 1 or channel 2 of the SA220. There is no need to run into both channels of the SA220, and it might even cause issues. Edit: you can bypass the Fishman Pre's by running into the monitor in. That should work better.

The EFX8 and EFX12 have great EQ, Pre's, and FX. Set the EQ on the SA220 flat as you'll have more control at the mixer. High/Mid (with sweeps)/Low vs. just High/Mid/Low on the Fishman.

With a mixer, you can place the SA220 wherever it makes the most sense in the room, and have the board within reach to make any adjustments.

If you can, find a good sound person to teach you how to properly use a mixer. It will be worth its weight in gold. Ask them about gain staging, EQ, how to use negative EQ, mid sweeps, and FX. Have them teach you on your gear preferably in an empty venue if you can get access.

They probably won't charge you much if they don't have to haul anything, and you will get a great hands on experience. Best of luck with your setup!
Those soundcraft mixers look nice but are a little more than I want to spend right now. I just need something simple so I can accept one or 2 more mics and a couple more instruments. Lets say I have 2 people singing and 2 guitars...how would I hook all that up with the Fishman system and a small mixer?
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  #21  
Old 12-25-2018, 08:11 AM
JackB1 JackB1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Guitaurman View Post
I sometimes run my Yamaha MG 10XU into my Fishman SA 330. It's so simple to do. Just make sure that your mixer's pan controls on each channel are straight up. Then run an XLR (mic cable) from either the left or right output of the mixer, into the Monitor In input in back of the unit. It is the only female input in the back, so it's the only place the cable will fit. You control the output of the Fishman with the Monitor in control on the front of the unit. This bypasses the preamps and mixer on the Fishman,, so you treat it like a powered speaker and use your mixer's preamps, EQ, and effects.
OK I think I understand that. But what if I get a simple mixer without any reverb or effects and I want to use the reverb from the Fishman? IN order to use the Fishman's effects, would I need to go out of the mixer and into one of the 2 main channels on the Fishman? Could I put all the mics on the LEFT channel of the mixer and all the guitars on the RIGHT channel and then plug them into channels 1 and 2 of the Fishman? That way I could EQ the vocals and guitars separately on the Fishman.
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  #22  
Old 12-25-2018, 08:17 AM
JackB1 JackB1 is offline
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Originally Posted by BT55 View Post
You can use an XLR Y cable from the mixers L/R output channels so that if any of the pan controls are set incorrectly the signal to the speakers are not affected.
What are "pan" controls? Is that just a right or left balance? Why would they be set incorrectly?

So you are saying to combine both L & R channel outputs from the mixer into one? And then feed that one output into the Fishman and basically just use the Fishman as a speaker? That would be fine as long as the mixer has effects like reverb built in. Ideally I would like to keep things simple and just add the capability of 2 or 3 more inputs to the Fishman.
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  #23  
Old 12-25-2018, 09:44 AM
Guitaurman Guitaurman is offline
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Originally Posted by JackB1 View Post
What are "pan" controls? Is that just a right or left balance? Why would they be set incorrectly?

So you are saying to combine both L & R channel outputs from the mixer into one? And then feed that one output into the Fishman and basically just use the Fishman as a speaker? That would be fine as long as the mixer has effects like reverb built in. Ideally I would like to keep things simple and just add the capability of 2 or 3 more inputs to the Fishman.
If you have a stereo mixer, and most are stereo, you'll have a "pan" control knob on each channel. That sends the output of that channel to either right or left output of the mixer. You could send your vocals to just the left speaker if you wanted. Since you are just running "mono" into one speaker, you can just leave the pan control straight up at 12:00 o'clock.

For best results in your set up, just run either of the mixers outputs into the "monitor in" on the back side of the Fishman. You can control overall volume with the 'Monitor in" on the top right of the front panel.

You don't need Y cables or to plug into the input channels 1 & 2 on the front. This way all the e q and volume is set at the mixer as long as the monitor in volume is set high enough. The master volume on the front won't control volume, only the Monitor in will control that, because you are bypassing the Fishman's integrated mixer.

In the event that you need more channels, you could use inputs 1&2 on the front panel. They would be separate from the mixer plugged into the back. You could use the Fishman's gain, eq, and master volume for those two channels with no ill effect on the mix from the external mixer. The master volume will only control the mix from channels 1 & 2 on the front panel. It will have no effect on the mix from the external mixer plugged into the back.
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  #24  
Old 12-25-2018, 12:39 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Originally Posted by JackB1 View Post
Those soundcraft mixers look nice but are a little more than I want to spend right now. I just need something simple so I can accept one or 2 more mics and a couple more instruments. Lets say I have 2 people singing and 2 guitars...how would I hook all that up with the Fishman system and a small mixer?
What is your budget?

I got my EFX8 used for $250 shipped and it was in brand new condition. Any mixer with decent pre's and mid sweeps will be at least that much. Search for used deals in your area and online.

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What are "pan" controls? Is that just a right or left balance? Why would they be set incorrectly?
Definitely find a sound guy and buy him a few beers to show you how to properly run your gear. It will be worth it.

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So you are saying to combine both L & R channel outputs from the mixer into one?
Absolutely not. Just use either the right or the left. You have one SA220, so you're only running mono anyway.

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basically just use the Fishman as a speaker?
Yes

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Originally Posted by JackB1 View Post
That would be fine as long as the mixer has effects like reverb built in.
Yes. Many do have that capability.

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Originally Posted by JackB1 View Post
Ideally I would like to keep things simple and just add the capability of 2 or 3 more inputs to the Fishman.
Get a mixer with Mid Sweeps, FX, and at least 4 (preferably 8) XLR channels. You'll need more channels at some point. The EFX8 is about as compact as it gets for a small format analog mixer and it has 8 XLR channels. I'd say to up your budget a little and look for a used deal on one.

Based on your questions, I can't stress finding a local sound guy to help you get started, enough. It will help you immensely and you can get some hands on experience in a real world situation.

Not judging, just trying to get you the best possible outcome in the least amount of time.

Last edited by The Kid!; 12-25-2018 at 12:51 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-25-2018, 02:05 PM
Monsum Monsum is offline
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Ok I have a similar situation. I just got a SA220 for one guitar and one mic, which works great. However I want to start hosting open mics and you sometimes get duos or even three musicians. Can someone recommend a small simple mixer to use in conjunction with the SA220 and briefly explain how I would hook it up? Ive never run anything other than the SA220 before. Do I input everything into the mixer and then all those outputs somehow go into the two SA220 inputs?
I was going to suggest any Soundcraft mixer which generally have a good reputation, but if it's still more you wanted to spend, have a look at Behringer mixers such as a Behringer Xenyx 1202FX ($99).
We used Behringer mixers in our church and they can do the job just fine.
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  #26  
Old 12-25-2018, 06:33 PM
Guitaurman Guitaurman is offline
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OK I think I understand that. But what if I get a simple mixer without any reverb or effects and I want to use the reverb from the Fishman? IN order to use the Fishman's effects, would I need to go out of the mixer and into one of the 2 main channels on the Fishman? Could I put all the mics on the LEFT channel of the mixer and all the guitars on the RIGHT channel and then plug them into channels 1 and 2 of the Fishman? That way I could EQ the vocals and guitars separately on the Fishman.
Simply put, if you try to send a line level signal to the Fishman's preamp inputs (Channel's 1 & 2 on the front) it will result in those preamps being overdriven even with the pad engaged. At best you will get a very distorted sound. If you increase any output from the mixer or gain on the Fishman, you'll get howling feedback! The monitor in, input in back is designed for a line level signal. Many lower priced mixers have effects.

I've always found that if you use equipment was designed to be used you don't have problems. If you try to cut corners or take shortcuts problems arise. You need a mixer with effects to do what you plan on doing and send it into the Mon send. Why fight it?
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  #27  
Old 12-25-2018, 07:22 PM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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It's a pretty easy thing to put an inline XLR pad between the mixer line level output and another mixer mic level input. Usually a 30db pad is about right.
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  #28  
Old 12-25-2018, 09:21 PM
Guitaurman Guitaurman is offline
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It's a pretty easy thing to put an inline XLR pad between the mixer line level output and another mixer mic level input. Usually a 30db pad is about right.
Well the 10dB Fishman's pad is not near enough, but realistically why do that? He's simply trying to use a mixer with his SA 220 and have reverb. The extra cost of a mixer with effects is minimal as opposed to one without. Patching in an after market attenuator and cable will add to the cost and detract from the ease of set up. The Unit is set up to accept line level signals already, why add extra unnecessary steps to plug in the mixer where it doesn't belong? I really don't care how he does it, but if it were me, and I have already successfully done what he's attempting, I'd just bite the bullet and get a mixer with effects and plug it into the Monitor in. He is going to buy one anyway. The bonus is he'd have a lot more options for effects with the mixer's effects than the Fishman's reverb.
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  #29  
Old 12-26-2018, 09:55 AM
JackB1 JackB1 is offline
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Well the 10dB Fishman's pad is not near enough, but realistically why do that? He's simply trying to use a mixer with his SA 220 and have reverb. The extra cost of a mixer with effects is minimal as opposed to one without. Patching in an after market attenuator and cable will add to the cost and detract from the ease of set up. The Unit is set up to accept line level signals already, why add extra unnecessary steps to plug in the mixer where it doesn't belong? I really don't care how he does it, but if it were me, and I have already successfully done what he's attempting, I'd just bite the bullet and get a mixer with effects and plug it into the Monitor in. He is going to buy one anyway. The bonus is he'd have a lot more options for effects with the mixer's effects than the Fishman's reverb.
I think this is a good plan and sounds simple enough. Thanks!
Can you recommend a mixer with effects for under $150?
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2018, 10:14 AM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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I think this is a good plan and sounds simple enough. Thanks!
Can you recommend a mixer with effects for under $150?
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