Herringbone that doesn't "line up" - this is intentional right?

[LakewoodM32Fan]

First I'll admit it. I had a phase as a shallow beauty-is-skin-deep owner for a while. I loved the bling of abalone. Bought a Taylor 914ce v-class as much for its sound (which was very good) as it's bling (almost as much abalone as tonewood). My Lakewoods, while not anywhere near as blingy, had dual abalone rings in the rosette.

Then I had my eyes opened recently when I demoed at least a dozen OMs from Bourgeois, Collings and Santa Cruz, all of which cost more than my (former) 914ce but had little to no abalone in sight. I ended up buying the SCGC OM because it sounded amazing and after two weeks I have absolutely zero buyers remorse from trading in the 914ce for credit towards the purchase.

And I've grown to love the vintage aesthetics and appointments of it. I was surprised to find I didn't miss the abalone bling at all, a big part of it I'm sure is due to the tone and playability making the guitar even more appealing in my eyes.

But I noticed that the herringbone purfling (my first guitar with one) doesn't "line up". By this, I mean the angles of the herringbone pattern don't form a perfect arrow ^ all the time. It will start to stagger and then after a while, line up again to form an arrow.

At first, I thought "man I didn't spring this much cash for a messed up, non-aligned herringbone strip!". But then I went on a deep dive research and to my surprise, it seems like the majority of herringbone purfling I've found on Collings, SCGC, Bourgeois, etc. are non-aligned.

But what's confusing is some Martins I've seen do seem to have nearly perfectly aligned herringbone...and other Martins do not!

In all honesty, I've "let it go" mentally as it seems all of the top builders seem to have the same type of non-aligned herringbone pattern. In fact, last time I looked closely at it I kind of liked how it "tripped out" my eyes with the pattern going "out of phase" as I read someone describe it as. Kind of like those paintings you had to stare at to see the sailboat in it.

But since this is my first experience with herringbone patterns, thought I'd throw it out here to get everyone's feedback and thoughts. I did a search and surprisingly didn't really come up with much on the topic of herringbone purfling being non-aligned (or out of phase).

[Coler]

Well I'll tell you one thing there's no way I'm checking my 28 for this now!

In all seriousness, I'm into the sound and the cosmetic adornments don't bother me one bit.

[J Patrick]

....first off not all herringbone is the same...in the case of your Santa Cruz....it’s probably not intentional....it just the nature of the beast....as the purfling is handled the separate pieces of wood that it is comprised of move about and become misaligned....google herringbone purfling and you will be hard pressed to find any images that display perfectly aligned examples...some herringbone is intentionally offset though....

[AgentKooper]

This piqued my curiosity, so I googled it too. Found this thread, which has some insight.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=422555

And this comment from another guitar forum:

"There is no "offset" herringbone. The alignment varies as you go around the guitar because the inside and outside of the strip must travel different distances. The strips do vary in their alignment prior to installing. I try to use a pair that match at the joint--at the top center seam over the tailblock. But all of them will have locations that align and that do not after they are installed."

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by LakewoodM32Fan

But I noticed that the herringbone purfling (my first guitar with one) doesn't "line up". By this, I mean the angles of the herringbone pattern don't form a perfect arrow ^ all the time. It will start to stagger and then after a while, line up again to form an arrow.

A photo would be helpful here.

[charles Tauber]

It has been decades since I last used herringbone. However, back in the day, herringbone was too wide/stiff to bend sideways around a guitar (or rosette). To bend it around a curve, it was split down the middle, allowing each half to bend without breaking. Doing so would cause the two halves to misalign since the inner half has a shorter perimeter to traverse than the outer half.

I don't know what people do to bend the stuff now.

[stringjunky]

You do realise you've created another problem and future topic here?

"Purfling non-aligned - Shall I send it back".

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by stringjunky

You do realise you've created another problem and future topic here?

"Purfling non-aligned - Shall I send it back".

Yeppers...another QC "issue" for the "Princess And The Pea" crowd...


Any day now...For real...


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by dwasifar

A photo would be helpful here.

Here are some photos, and because of the forum re-sizing you may have to click on it to enlarge:

SCGC OM - Look at the right side of the picture: note how the herringbone at the waist is less like an arrowhead ^ and more like a zipper? The as it progresses up to the upper bout it becomes more arrowhead like? Then as it meets the neck, it's zipper again?


Here's a Bourgeois OM where for the most part the ^ form is kept throughout most of it, but during certain segments you can see one side of the herringbone "lag behind" the other side a little.

Again, it happens all the time so now I'm pretty sure it's not a QC issue. And the explanation that someone offered about the differential in stretching over round portions of the guitar would make sense as to why the purfling would no longer be in alignment with each other (one half of the herringbone strip would be bending at a different circumference than the other).

[JayBee1404]

The effect the OP is questioning can easily be seen in these two pics - the alignment of the two ‘sides’ changes due to the ‘outer’ side having further to travel than the ‘inner’ side...more easily seen on the soundhole purfling.

38327F34-6F50-4320-9004-FD73BC60AFC0.jpg

B2887553-E916-4587-A358-84CF09E55111.jpg

[Mandobart]

Interesting. I've only had my HD 28 for a couple months so I took a close look. Sure enough, along the bottom of the soundboard (where the curvature is the least - its almost dead flat there!) I have a few "zipper" instead of "arrowhead" segments. I would expect these to be the best aligned parts.

It doesn't really bug me, but I probably never even would have noticed on my own.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

I've totally come around from "what the heck?" to "oh it makes sense why this is" to "it's actually kind of a cool eye-trip".

Here's a shot of my rosette, which demonstrates both perfect alignment all the way to the other end of the spectrum...

[JonWint]

All herringbone alignment I've seen varies randomly. Wood machining tolerances and glue-up processes are not perfect. Any stretch of components during assembly will alter "bone" alignment.

The herringbone strip is glued with water proof glue. The pieces will not "slide" in relation to each other when radiused around a curve.

I think you would have to select from 20+ pieces to find two perfect matches.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Very informative, thanks JonWint!

Also check out this image of a Martin. They got it oh-so-close to perfect

[Coler]

Actually I just checked my 28 and it is as good as the Martin stock pic above or slightly better.