humid climates i.e. Indonesia

[WayneJohnson]

To all luthiers with experience in sending guitars to the southeast Asia region of the world.

I have a customer interested in one of my guitars. He and is family are moving to Indonesia to do mission work and he has concerns about ruining it by subjecting it to such a hot and humid climate. Average temp around 80 degrees with relative humidity from 70-90%. What would you recommend as I begin his build with this in mind?

All thoughts welcome and appreciated from wood choices to how to care for it.

[Tim McKnight]

Don't use fish glue!

[jessupe]

There is lots of confusion around this subject, this also gets into the religious keeping of instruments at 45/50 humidity readings.

The two primary concerns are rate of absorption and actual moisture content of the wood as it relates to it's regional moisture content micro climate/area.

Examples of regional MC areas would be west coast, 6-8% for hardwoods, southwest desert areas would be 4-6% and places like Florida could be 10-12%

I think it's great that instruments are built at 45/55 an that owners try to keep them at that, but its not very realistic depending on variables and can actually be adverse based on reality of regional MC. To me the most important thing is to allow an instrument to slowly and properly{rate of absorption} acclimate to it's home environment.

If an instrument was built in the desert at 45/55% humidity, a 4-6% equilibrium area, and then sent to Florida or Asia in your case, and then religiously kept at 45/55 % in an area that has 12% even 14% content equilibrium, at some point the instrument will most likely be exposed to the environment long enough to start absorbing moisture in an effort of the material trying to achieve equilibrium of that area, and or by trying to keep an instrument at an artificially low humidty/thus MC for the area, one risks a "moment" of high rate of absorption which can lead to distortions that can be detrimental based on MC= size and as well as MC effecting elasticity.

Personally I feel it is much safer/realistic to slowly allow an instrument to acclimate to it's environment and then stay there vrs trying to keep a steady humidity because by doing so you "lock" an instruments size and at some point if that instrument is exposed to rapid change, to what would be a normal cycle for another object left to naturally expand and contract, it can damage itself via internal hydraulic pressures, cracks, splits and glue joints failing.

MC is size of the material, less water= shrink/small, more water equals expand/bigger. An instrument that is built 45/55% at 7% moisture will be X size, during the day, in a non controlled environment, the wood will cycle normally within its region and expand and contract within it's limitations, the material and glue joints get used to being "exercised" whereas constant kept instruments develop atrophy and are not good with "change", rapid moisture loos or gain can have a more dramatic effect on these "coddled" instruments. Now in studio /recording environments where instruments can be coddled "forever" I do suggest this, because it keeps things very consistent.

In my opinion for a regular "player" guitar I suggest the natural environment approach. So basically the guitar should be shipped, stored in the case in it's new home and slowly exposed to the new environment where it SHOULD slowly absorb moisture and slowly expand. Keep in mind soft/ hardwoods absorb at different rates so with all the different types of woods, it takes time for it to equalize...Also one of the benefits of HHG vs PVA in that it is hydroscopic and can self adjust to its environment much better than PVA.

Just my opinion, I'm sure there are those in the "humidity club" that would disagree. But in general an instrument fairs better going from drier to wetter vs the other way around.

[WayneJohnson]

Thanks Jessupe! I appreciate your perspective, very helpful.

Tim, I'll keep to titebond original on this one.

[Marcus Wong]

I live in Singapore where it is summer all year round with a ridiculous average RH%. I'm not afraid to take my guitar out, but am careful not to expose it to the elements for extended periods of time (the guitar I'm referring to is my Michaud Made in Lucky Strike/"The Tree").

However, the humidity has a noticeable effect on the sound/responsiveness etc. on the guitar. What I simply do is place dehumidifying packs inside the sound hole and keep it inside the case when not in use, replacing the packs regularly, and that's enough to keep the humidity at bay. Of course, you would have to be careful not to place too many packs as it might get too dry and crack the wood.

Hope this helps!

[jessupe]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

I live in Singapore where it is summer all year round with a ridiculous average RH%. I'm not afraid to take my guitar out, but am careful not to expose it to the elements for extended periods of time (the guitar I'm referring to is my Michaud Made in Lucky Strike/"The Tree").

However, the humidity has a noticeable effect on the sound/responsiveness etc. on the guitar. What I simply do is place dehumidifying packs inside the sound hole and keep it inside the case when not in use, replacing the packs regularly, and that's enough to keep the humidity at bay. Of course, you would have to be careful not to place too many packs as it might get too dry and crack the wood.

Hope this helps!

Yes it is important to also understand, as pointed out by you, that an increase in MC not only effects the actual physical properties of the material, but also in effect increases "dampening" in the acoustic sense. The increase in moisture based on increased "free" water {water that can migrate in and out of the wood, not to be confused with "Bound" water, that which permanently resides in the cell walls} will cut off vibration or increase the cutoff of vibration. Most noted by a "Wet blanket" type change in tone where the guitar will sound more crisp in a more "normal" more like where it was built environment. It is important to understand that instruments can handle changes in regional MC, it is very important to understand that it is how fast/much you expose it to the new environment that matters. 72 hours or three days is generally the "touchy" period where one needs to be careful. For example you would not want to jump off a plane from Arizona and go to a beach in tropical Asia and whip out your guitar and hang out all day long right off the bat. The other way around can be more touchy as rapid loss of water often results in cracks in the top. Instruments that come from non desert areas really need constant slow introduction of moisture with a very slow decrease to equalize in dry desert environments.

Edit; the increase in moisture can also reduce radiation.

[WayneJohnson]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

I live in Singapore where it is summer all year round with a ridiculous average RH%. I'm not afraid to take my guitar out, but am careful not to expose it to the elements for extended periods of time (the guitar I'm referring to is my Michaud Made in Lucky Strike/"The Tree").

However, the humidity has a noticeable effect on the sound/responsiveness etc. on the guitar. What I simply do is place dehumidifying packs inside the sound hole and keep it inside the case when not in use, replacing the packs regularly, and that's enough to keep the humidity at bay. Of course, you would have to be careful not to place too many packs as it might get too dry and crack the wood.

Hope this helps!

Yes, Thanks Marcus, this does help, quite encouraging really

[WayneJohnson]

Originally Posted by jessupe

Yes it is important to also understand, as pointed out by you, that an increase in MC not only effects the actual physical properties of the material, but also in effect increases "dampening" in the acoustic sense. The increase in moisture based on increased "free" water {water that can migrate in and out of the wood, not to be confused with "Bound" water, that which permanently resides in the cell walls} will cut off vibration or increase the cutoff of vibration. Most noted by a "Wet blanket" type change in tone where the guitar will sound more crisp in a more "normal" more like where it was built environment. It is important to understand that instruments can handle changes in regional MC, it is very important to understand that it is how fast/much you expose it to the new environment that matters. 72 hours or three days is generally the "touchy" period where one needs to be careful. For example you would not want to jump off a plane from Arizona and go to a beach in tropical Asia and whip out your guitar and hang out all day long right off the bat. The other way around can be more touchy as rapid loss of water often results in cracks in the top. Instruments that come from non desert areas really need constant slow introduction of moisture with a very slow decrease to equalize in dry desert environments.

Edit; the increase in moisture can also reduce radiation.

Jessupe, thanks for these helpful insights.

Are there preferred guitar cases that anyone might suggest for these environments?

[pandaroo]

What about using a torrefied top?

[LSemmens]

I took an Ovation 12 string to Darwin from Adelaide in the 70s and it lasted less than12 months before I started having all sorts of trouble (mainly neck straightness). I knew little about humidity and Instruments back then. I replaced it with a Maton in '79 and all I ever did was keep a bag of Silica Gel in the case, ensuring that it (the gel, not the guitar) was "dried out" (put in a slow oven) every few months. I still have that Guitar and we've been living "down south" for the last 10 years so humidity and heat are not issues any more. The Maton was never coddled, but it was NEVER left in a hot car or in direct sunlight. I used it whilst camping, and in many, and varied, buildings, tin sheds and air conditioning. The only issue was keeping strings in tune when moving from one building to another. Provided the instrument is built properly and not subjected to extremes, I don't see a huge problem.