Fret size relating to neck/ saddle

[balata9999]

My vintage acoustic is due for some new frets soon. It could also ideally use a neck reset to be perfect - but its a handmade “boutique” brand from the late 70s and nobody that I know and trust really wants to take the risk of getting into something unknown with it at this point while its still marginally OK playability wise. A straight edge hits about a 16th below the top of the bridge and the radiused saddle is real low - especially over the high e snd b strings.

Im wondering if I refretted it with large frets if that would effectively help me out to be able to raise the saddle back up a bit and get me some room to work with. The frets on there now have been leveled down to about .03. My other acoustic has been refretted with 55090’s so I’m used to it already?

[John Arnold]

It will gain you 0.025", if that is helpful. Of course, you will have to raise the nut the same amount.

[balata9999]

Is that going to be doubled on saddle height gained though? Is it the same as when calculating how much saddle to remove when lowering the action (to lower the action a certain amount take off double from the saddle?) if so it seems that if I could gain .05 at the bridge end it gets me real close to the 1/16 I’m off on neck angle. I’m just wondering if my calculations are correct?

[John Arnold]

No. The double rule only applies when the nut height is unchanged. The nut must be raised by the same amount, assuming the nut was set up correctly before. The correct nut height is the same plane as the tops of the frets.

[redir]

If you are willing to pay for a neck reset I'm sure you can find someone who would do it. I know I would. Is there any information out there on this particular maker? Is he still alive?

[balata9999]

It’s an early build of Robert Ehlers who has passed on. I contacted 2 respected Luthiers that I have used for a lot of work in the past who said without knowing the construction or glue or really anything about it they were hesitant to get into it on such a guitar

[redir]

Originally Posted by balata9999

It’s an early build of Robert Ehlers who has passed on. I contacted 2 respected Luthiers that I have used for a lot of work in the past who said without knowing the construction or glue or really anything about it they were hesitant to get into it on such a guitar

This is a well known maker so I'm sure there is information out there.

If by luthier you mean guitar maker then that makes sense, they are more concerned with building. As a repair tech what I would do after careful examination is at least try. There are other ways of dealing with the unknown. One of which is to remove the fretbaord by sawing through the 12th fret and removing that part of the extension so that you can then see the joint.

I just took one real quick look and I found this: http://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/ehlers-neck-reset

[balata9999]

Thank you both for the info. It gives me some things to think about.

[John Arnold]

One of which is to remove the fretboard by sawing through the 12th fret and removing that part of the extension so that you can then see the joint.

I prefer to remove the whole fingerboard, if it comes to that. Unfortunately, I don't have firsthand experience with Ehlers guitars.

I did know Rob from afar, having sold him red spruce on several occasions from the late-1990's on. That was around the time he moved to Mexico. I always enjoyed talking with him on the phone....very soft spoken. I still have the plastic templates he sent me so I could cut soundboards for his unique models. Like my red spruce cutting mentor Ted Davis, he is greatly missed.

[redir]

Probably even a better idea John. I've only ever done the partial fretboard removal on a few occasions and as you most certainly know it used to be common to remove it at the body joint which later came to show that was a mistake as the fretbaord is actually a structural member of the system. So the idea was to remove it two frets away from the body joint so as to have a nice stiff member across the body joint when put back together again.

But in hind sight yet again, you may as well remove the whole darn thing. Then you can correct any other neck bow problems while you are at it and it's really not a whole lot more work.

I'd still probably take it on a case by case basis but it makes sense.

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Surly there is someone out there that can confirm what neck joint he used. This is actually a very interesting puzzle to solve. If the guitar was in my shop I'd be doing a lot of research and making phone calls. My guess is the answer is out there.

[balata9999]

Redir - I contacted chicago fret works from the forum link you posted above that did the Ehlers reset on that guitar. They said it was a bear to do and quoted me anywhere from 1200-1700 to do mine including the refret and new saddle/nut because it was so difficult.

Seems quite excessive so I got out my straight edge and did some measuring just to see again whats going on and if a refret would help or like I was thinking the neck reset. Its weird and I’m not schooled enough on guitar geometry to know exactly whats up though. First off, the guitar plays ok, its not giving me any buzzing or issues really but It could be better compared to my others and the frets are pretty low.

The straight edge to the bridge seems ok right now, it hits right on top of the bridge. The neck has no relief its basically straight, and the action is not really all that low, yet the saddle is as low as can go and the break angle on the high E is almost nothing. Here’s some pics - advice?

https://imgur.com/gallery/i2tN50u

[redir]

It looks like normal action to me, may advice, keep playing the guitar and enjoy it. A refret would definitely help to as resurfacing the board with taller frets would adjust the action somewhat.