12 string playability

[Brucebubs]

You'll need to do something, that action is unplayable.
Here's the action on my Guild F-412 at the 12th fret.
The ruler is metric.




Here's another option in this thread; http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=462343

[JeffreyAK]

Well that's probably the highest action I've seen on a 12-string. Looks like the top is caved in by the sound hole too, as well as bulged by the bridge. Most likely it spent it's life in low humidity air, and that plus the extra tension from 12-strings have caused a lot of problems. I don't think that's fixable without spending a lot of money, but I guess you get to decide what's worthwhile. I might keep it as a beater, campfire-type guitar, if I could lower the action to something reasonable with a shorter saddle. If you can remove the saddle, first thing I'd try is sanding it down on the bottom surface. You can't make it much worse, and that might bring it into the playable action range.

[1neeto]

Wow that thread is gold. The bridge is bolted in so it shouldn’t be a big issue to replace it. The main issue is the caved in sound board but now I know it’s fixable without spending too much money. Thanks guys!

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by lagator

Nice looking Ventura.

Frank, I also have a Cortez 12 string as well and the playability is very good. it has very low action and great tone to my ear which is more beginner than anything.

Mine however looks quite a bit different from this one. Different headstock, no zero fret, different rosette, different pickguard, different bridge.

Mine doesn't say anything on the headstock but the label inside says made by Cortez as a custom order for C.A. Gotz. I got it from a German seller on Reverb, not to Hijack but I'd love to see some pics of your Cortez 12 String and share pics of mine since I've never seen another one but mine.

(Let's see how I do with my first attempt at posting pictures here)

This the full-sized picture of my Cortez 12-String. I bought it new in a US Musicland record store circa 1977. I added the DeArmond pickup a year or so later. Gigged with it in the performing heyday of my punk-folk band.

It has similar, but not as extreme, top distortion as the Ventura in this thread. I replaced the heavily notched soft plastic saddle with a Tusc one. It's playable if one allows for it's funkiness, in fact I just used it to record some droning parts that I don't think will end up that prominent in the mix for a new piece I working on this weekend.



Earlier this year I strung it up Steve Tibbett's style with doubled non-octave strings, and tuned it down to D to keep the added tension of the non-octave strings within reason. That's one of the nice things about a zero-fret guitar, your nut slots are not critical.

I'm using it enough since that I should probably put it in my signature list.

[FrankHudson]

Let's try again on the pictures of my Cortez.

Here's the bridge after I replaced the chewed up soft plastic saddle with Tusc, and it's close enough to see the "Tibbett's tuning" strings.



and another attempt at posting the picture of the whole guitar, hopefully larger this time.





The tape on the pickup is covering a roller volume knob on the DeArmond pickup. On stage I didn't want to inadvertently change the volume with my pick or picking hand.

[lagator]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

Let's try again on the pictures of my Cortez.

Here's the bridge after I replaced the chewed up soft plastic saddle with Tusc, and it's close enough to see the "Tibbett's tuning" strings.



and another attempt at posting the picture of the whole guitar, hopefully larger this time.





The tape on the pickup is covering a roller volume knob on the DeArmond pickup. On stage I didn't want to inadvertently change the volume with my pick or picking hand.

Thanks, very nice. I like the aged top. You're right in that it does look quite a bit like the OP's Ventura although in better condition. I really don't know anything about the Tibbett's Tuning strings so will have to look that up.

I will post some pics of mine when I get home tomorrow. I might do a new thread.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

Let's try again on the pictures of my Cortez.



Here's the bridge after I replaced the chewed up soft plastic saddle with Tusc, and it's close enough to see the "Tibbett's tuning" strings.







and another attempt at posting the picture of the whole guitar, hopefully larger this time.











The tape on the pickup is covering a roller volume knob on the DeArmond pickup. On stage I didn't want to inadvertently change the volume with my pick or picking hand.

That’s a really nice guitar! I bet it would tell some stories about you if it could speak!

[s11141827]

How about Thomastik Infeld AC-210 Plectrum Strings?

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by s11141827

How about Thomastik Infeld AC-210 Plectrum Strings?

Beautiful strings - soft feel and warm tone - expensive.

La Bella Silk & Steel are also worth considering.

[rstaight]

My Takamine GJ72CE is arguably one of my best playing guitars. When new it had D'addario strings. The sound with those strings is why I bought it.

Then I thought I would try Elixir. Oh my goodness, Elixir is all it will get.

That is one nice looking 12 string.

[donlyn]

12 string playability

I hope after waiting 6 years, Mr. '1neeto' (Juanito?) has not been holding his breath waiting for more solutions to his problem.

Here my few cents worth anyway.

My first acoustic 12 string was the aforementioned EKO Ranger XII 12 string Dreadnought with the zero fret and built like a tank. That was over fifty years ago, but I remember having way too much fun with it. It was also my only acoustic guitar for over a decade.

I currently own 2 Taylors and 2 Guilds. All are 1+7/8" for nut widths, 3 of them are 17" lower bout Jumboes (The Grand Orchestra is 'only' 16+7/8" width), all are traditionally strung octave string first (no 'Rick's need apply), all are tuned down a semitone to 'D#', and I fingerpick all my instruments using my nails as picks. Details on three of them are in my signature, and the fourth is a spruce over laminate maple Guild F-2512 Jumbo. Action on all of them is similarly low enough with no buzzing.

All are strung with {.010 - .047} 12 string light gauge. The Taylors with Elixir PB 12 string Lights and the Guilds wear D'Addario 12 string Lights. Some experimentation in cross-dressing is probably in their collective futures.

I find that all of them are very easy to play. The only playability drawback may lie in either the nut width or body sizes. Neither bother me much. And in a seating position, a Jumbo is surprisingly easy to play due to the small body waist allowing the guitar to lie low on the whichever leg you choose. No problem reaching all the strings.

Oh yeah, they all sound great.

Never did get one of those 12 fret Taylor 12s, but they are easy to play any which way.

Be well and play well,

Don
.

[pcs264]

I've owned and enjoyed several 12-strings over the years, and here are some opinions based on my experience:
First, all acoustic guitars benefit from a though & proper setup, and none more than 12-strings. That's the starting point for assessing any 12-string.

Second, I agree with some earlier posts that as a generalization, Taylors and Ovations often are the most comfortable and easy to play 12-strings. But...

Third, the best reason for having a 12-string is that big, rich, magical tone. Played on their own, Taylor 12-strings can have a fine tone, especially in the highs and mids. But A-B'd vs. a Guild F-412 or F-512 (or the very rare F-612), Taylors just can't match the depth and rich low end that a Guild brings. And with a good setup, Guilds can be almost as comfortable to play as a Taylor or Ovation.

FWIW, my experiences are based on US-made Guilds from Westerly, Corona, Tacoma and New Hartford - excellent guitars come from all those locations and eras of Guild. I don't have personal experience with recent US Guilds from Oxnard, or with the Asian-made Guilds, though I've heard very good things about those as well.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by L20A

If you want that 12 string to really wake up, remove the adjustable saddle and install a new bone saddle.

I have seen this done on a few old Gibson guitars with remarkable improvement.

YES!! Also:if you can experiment with each 2 string course, note that ever so slightly changing the width of each course, changes the tone & jangle.

[donlyn]

12 string playability

Originally Posted by pcs264

I've owned and enjoyed several 12-strings over the years, and here are some opinions based on my experience:
First, all acoustic guitars benefit from a though & proper setup, and none more than 12-strings. That's the starting point for assessing any 12-string.

Second, I agree with some earlier posts that as a generalization, Taylors and Ovations often are the most comfortable and easy to play 12-strings. But...

Third, the best reason for having a 12-string is that big, rich, magical tone. Played on their own, Taylor 12-strings can have a fine tone, especially in the highs and mids. But A-B'd vs. a Guild F-412 or F-512 (or the very rare F-612), Taylors just can't match the depth and rich low end that a Guild brings. And with a good setup, Guilds can be almost as comfortable to play as a Taylor or Ovation.

FWIW, my experiences are based on US-made Guilds from Westerly, Corona, Tacoma and New Hartford - excellent guitars come from all those locations and eras of Guild. I don't have personal experience with recent US Guilds from Oxnard, or with the Asian-made Guilds, though I've heard very good things about those as well.

pcs264,

For what it's worth, both my Guild 12 string guitars are 'Asian-made' and play way above their cost. The F-2512 is an 'arch-back', solid spruce over a laminate maple body, and sounds and plays great. The F-1512 is a solid spruce over solid rosewood (no electronics) construction and is simply amazing. Besides, I can't afford the higher prices of US made Guilds anymore.

I have heard some less than complimentary things about the F-2512, but I am of the 'play before pay' school of thought, and I have had no problems with either. But I do believe the closed tuners on the F-1512 are superior to the closed tuners on the R-2512. Actually bought a set of mini-grovers for the F-2512, but found out I haven't needed them after my initial experiences and maybe also getting used to them. Actually tend to play the 2512 a bit more often. And I enjoy the differences in sound.

Be well and play well,

Don
.

[MissoulaFlood]

Interesting input as I read back thru these posts. With respect to 12 string setups; I'd be keen to know if setting one up so that the tops of all 12 strings are level would be beneficial. Particular on the 6th and 5th courses where the pairs are more staggered relative to height. Perhaps this would require independent intonation. Inquiring minds want to know.