ToneDexter - The Holy Grail! - Page 16

CycleBob · #**226** 06-12-2018, 08:32 PM

Since installing a K&K Pure mini in my recently built OM, I’ve been pleased, but not over-the-moon with the sound.
I was delighted to run across the Tone Dexter discussion and after all bit more research ordered one yesterday.
The company and TD product sound great: an innovative, but highly practical solution made by a few guys the really understand the problem. Good stuff! The results sound very good from the demo videos and I’m keen to try it myself.

SprintBob · #**227** 06-13-2018, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycleBob

Since installing a K&K Pure mini in my recently built OM, I’ve been pleased, but not over-the-moon with the sound.
I was delighted to run across the Tone Dexter discussion and after all bit more research ordered one yesterday.
The company and TD product sound great: an innovative, but highly practical solution made by a few guys the really understand the problem. Good stuff! The results sound very good from the demo videos and I’m keen to try it myself.

I have the K&K Pure Mini in both my SCGC Skye 00 and my Robinson 12 fret dread and running through the ToneDexter, the difference is astounding how accurate both guitars sound through my Fishman Loudbox Mini so I think you will be very pleased.

CycleBob · #**228** 06-13-2018, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I have the K&K Pure Mini in both my SCGC Skye 00 and my Robinson 12 fret dread and running through the ToneDexter, the difference is astounding how accurate both guitars sound through my Fishman Loudbox Mini so I think you will be very pleased.

Good to hear bob. I use a loud box mini myself so it sounds like you’ve had good success with a rig that’ll be very similar to mine. Very promising—can’t wait to find out.

jojobean39 · #**229** 06-14-2018, 08:13 PM

Got my TD today... only got to play with it for about an hour. I’m impressed so far.

It’s amazing how easy it is to use.

I did a few guitars with varying results. Tried two mics- SM81 and AKG414. I had better results with the SM81. The AKG had too many options. I only played with one placement.

1. McPherson 5.0XP- I got good results here. I need to do more takes though.

2. McPherson Carbon Fiber Sable- Yuck. This sounded awful. I only tried it with the AKG and it was the first guitar I tried. So, I need to give it another go. But this just didn’t sound good at all. I also had the tone wheel too far to one side instead of in the middle.

3. Taylor 812CE- This was my friend’s guitar who’s our worship leader. This guitar is part duck, I’m certain, as it’s all quack. I got REALLY amazing results with it. The only problem is, when he played it, it didn’t sound quite as good. Perhaps I need to get him to do the playing.

So far, I’m impressed. I think it will only get better from here.

gfirob · #**230** 06-14-2018, 10:00 PM

Sounds good. What pickups do you have in those guitars? And keep experimenting. It only gets better as you get used to the process.

jojobean39 · #**231** 06-15-2018, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfirob

Sounds good. What pickups do you have in those guitars? And keep experimenting. It only gets better as you get used to the process.

Both McPhersons have Baggs Elements in them- the CF Sable supposedly has one that is EQed just for CF. I had my tone knob completely turned to one side by accident and that may be the result of the unkind sound I got from it. But it has been my experience in the past that CF guitars are hard to mic. I remember being in a studio one time trying to mic one and we just couldn’t get a nice sound.

The Taylor guitar of my friend’s had the ES2 system in it. It always sounds SO quacky. The sound guys at church cannot stand it. It’s okay for light fingerpicking. But for any hard strum, it just loses any tone. That was one of the main reasons I purchased it, was to help make his guitar sound better.

I’m excited to try out everything a bit more. I have a dpa mic that I’m really excited to try.

daringescape · #**232** 12-12-2018, 10:01 PM

I was just thinking... what would happen if you ran multiple mics for training at the same time (for example; one at the nut, one at the 14th fret, and one at the lower sound hole position) through a mixer into the tonedexter?

I just got my TD and have only made a couple of wave maps with an SM81, but I may have to try this.

shufflebeat · #**233** 12-13-2018, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daringescape

I was just thinking... what would happen if you ran multiple mics for training at the same time (for example; one at the nut, one at the 14th fret, and one at the lower sound hole position) through a mixer into the tonedexter?

I just got my TD and have only made a couple of wave maps with an SM81, but I may have to try this.

Previous discussion (#121):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

There's no reason not to try anything, you never know. But generally, mixing 2 mics to mono causes phase cancellation. For recording or live performance, this usually isn't desirable. Whether it will produce good results with tonedexter is hard to predict. From what I can tell, TD doesn't necessarily want or need a traditional good recording. The recommended mic positions are not where I would place mics to make a good sounding recording, but they work well for TD. So more mics may not be better, unless it is :-)

My experience would suggest it's an interesting project but doesn't make a significant improvement in a real-life scenario.

EasilyAmused · #**234** 01-28-2019, 11:23 AM

So I just got my tonedexter last week. It's pretty impressive!

Making tone maps was pretty easy. Followed the instructions, experimented with mic positions - I like the 6" below/6" out on most of my guitars.

Tried a few mics - all of which had workable results. I had, on hand, a sm57, an M-Audio large diaphragm condenser - both of which gave workable results. The SM57 sounded like the guitar mic'd by an SM57 - for better or worse. It certainly had that "character". A large diaphragm condenser gave good results, but mic placement was fairly finicky. I then went and rented an SM81 for the weekend, and that certainly gave better results than the others.

It doesn't sound exactly like the mic'd guitar, but it is SOOO much better than anything else I've ever tried.

I think the pickups limitations still come into play. With an undersaddle pickup, the end result sounds great, but there's still this kind of artificial quality to how it feels - largely because the pickup doesn't sense things like taps/brushing the body, etc - so it's obvious while playing it that it isn't an actual mic. With a K&K, it "feels" a bit more real because the pickup "hears" more acoustic information.

None the less, I typically HATE UST sound, but this pedal really transforms both a UST and K&K to the same sound quality - which is pretty amazing. I've had guitars where I've ripped out the under saddle to replace it with a K&K - with the tone dexter, I don't really feel like that is necessary any more (even though I still prefer the K&K).

The tone-dexter can also really save a bad pickup situation. I have a Breedlove that, with the pinless bridge and JDL bridge, had a particularly bad K&K install - and the tonedexter totally saves that guitar's plugged in sound!

I've always had to do dramatic EQing to get workable results with that guitar, but the EQ processing that the tone dexter uses are PERFECT for taming that guitar's amplified sound. For the first time in 20 years, I actually feel like I can use that guitar live! I was close to selling the guitar (because 90% of my professional playing situations require a plugged in sound), but the tone dexter has absolutely saved this guitar for me!

It doesn't sound exactly like the mic'd acoustic sound, but plugging into a PA, it has so much more of a natural sound than anything I've ever experienced.

This weekend I'll get the chance to play live with the tone dexter and I'll be able to see how it works in that setting.

I also appreciate that this box takes care of a whole bunch of other functions that are necessary for live performance. Having a tuner, treble/bass EQ, notch filter, phase, boost and a DI pretty much make it worthwhile even without the tone matching. Honestly, I think it's a well priced device that covers A LOT of ground.

There are a couple of features that I wish were also included:

1) Mids EQ! I don't necessarily feel like I need it with any of my wavemaps, but it would just add another layer of flexibility to how to use this pedal. I mean, ultimately you can get a more "scooped-mids" sound by increasing the bass and treble, or a more "pushed-mids" sound by decreasing them, but seeing as most common acoustic preamps have a mids control, it would just be adding some familiarity to the process.

2) Ground lift on the DI - I haven't had any issues with hum YET, but I'm not sure the balanced DI out is transformer isolated/ground lifted (it might be, by default but I haven't seen anything in the literature about this). This might not be an actual issue, but it is something I noticed.

3) Some extra "studio" tools - I realize you can use the effects loop, but I'd love if there was an all-in-one solution. Having a built in compressor with give that extra bit of studio polish, and being able to add in a bit of reverb would, for me, make this a one stop shop.

Again, this really isn't a criticism at all, just a wish list! These features would probably increase the price, and for such a novel piece of technology from an otherwise unknown company, I totally get how you might not want to scare people off by creating a product that's too expensive.

gfirob · #**235** 01-28-2019, 03:34 PM

Welcome to the Tonedexter parade, I'm glad you find it so effective. I have mine set up for four guitars and it really is a game changer.

James May · #**236** 01-28-2019, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

...

2) Ground lift on the DI - I haven't had any issues with hum YET, but I'm not sure the balanced DI out is transformer isolated/ground lifted (it might be, by default but I haven't seen anything in the literature about this). This might not be an actual issue, but it is something I noticed.

...

There is an automatic ground lift on the XLR output that happens when you plug something into the 1/4" output. This is likely the only scenario where you would have ground loop issues, and it is taken care of automatically. Should you want to lift ground on the XLR and not use the 1/4" output, you could insert a dummy plug into the 1/4" output jack.

EasilyAmused · #**237** 01-29-2019, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James May

There is an automatic ground lift on the XLR output that happens when you plug something into the 1/4" output. This is likely the only scenario where you would have ground loop issues, and it is taken care of automatically. Should you want to lift ground on the XLR and not use the 1/4" output, you could insert a dummy plug into the 1/4" output jack.

That's awesome! As I said - I wasn't sure it would be an issue (and I haven't had any ground loop noise), I am just used to having a ground loop switch on any DI.

I also have to say, looking over threads (which is how I learned about the Tone Dexter), I've also been really impressed with your willingness to help out and communicate with people. That means a lot for me when buying gear!

pmarino · #**238** 01-30-2019, 07:53 AM

After two big shows with feedback issues out of my mic/blend pickup, I have a ToneDexter arriving by the weekend (in the UK). Looking forward to rolling back the pickup mic and seeing what this box can do for my live sound! These boards (and some YT videos) definitely influenced my buy, I'll say that much.

Petty1818 · #**239** 01-30-2019, 07:57 AM

I tried my Tonedexter + HFN the other day and was quite impressed. Oddly enough, what I really loved was how the Tonedexter preamp smoothed out my tone. When I used the HFN with my Session DI and then Felix preamp, the pickup was rather bright. With the Tonedexter (bypassed mode), I actually had to turn the treble up. My only issue at the moment is that I need a better mic. Also, I am not really sure how people use a full 100% wavemap. It just cuts too much bass and sounds a bit hollow. Even a blend of 40% is perfect.

The Kid! · #**240** 01-30-2019, 01:21 PM

I tried a Neumann KM185 first and got some results that I was happy with. The upper mid range presence helped the guitar cut through in a mix, but over time I was less happy with it.

The second round of training was with a Shure SM81 and got some incredible results that I'm very happy with. My advice is to try different mics and different positions and try them out for a few gigs before you decide on what to keep.

Take notes on which mics and positions you used on each wave map. The next time you go in, you will have a better starting point and should get better results.

I really couldn't believe how much of a difference the mic made in creating the wave map. I'm very impressed with the Tonedexter.