Pickup for Bluegrass band?

reely989 · #1 12-17-2018, 12:30 PM

Hey guys, I've been researching a lot about pickups and I'm kind of torn. I just got a Santa Cruz Guitar Company Tony Rice model and I'm wanting a pickup. I don't want anything requiring a lot of modification. I'd prefer not to drill out the endpin if I don't have to, but I can get over that. My father has an M80 he's happy with, but I was looking at K&K pure mini and the LR Baggs Anthem as well. I'm planning on running it to an LR baggs venue. Any suggestions? I'd heard that the K&K pre amps work a lot better with their pickups, and I have a pure XLR pre amp laying around. I like the boost and tuner on the venue though. Maybe I could run from the Pure XLR through the venue? I'd like it to sound as acoustic as possible, but everyone mentions feedback with any of the mic blended systems. I guess my though was that bluegrass typically isn't as loud as a lot of use cases for these things? I'm not going to deal with drums or electric instruments. Any other pickups I should be considering? I haven't read much positive about the Schertler AG6. Sunrise is popular but everyone mentions it doesn't sound very acoustic.

Thanks for the help!

jonfields45 · #2 12-17-2018, 02:18 PM

No drill, temporary installation is the primary target of the Fishman Rare Earth products. The version with a mic sounds wonderful but is harder to get in and out of a guitar due to the goose neck. You can control volume and mic mix right from the PUP.

If you are willing to drill, then the Anthem is a great choice for a system that is complete (active, dual source, UST only mode for loud venues, etc.).

If drilling and super glue are OK, then the K&K is great if you want to minimize stuff in your guitar and carry a preamp for when you need to plug into a mixer. ToneDexter is a great preamp option with the ability to turn the K&K into a mic like sound.

varmonter · #3 12-17-2018, 03:33 PM

I know you have this new guitar and it's all
pretty and stuff. Once your over that youll
want to drill. Most bluegrass bands use mics.
But of course some dont. Whats the rest of
the band use?? I use both kk and m80.
I like the sound of kk but it requires outboard
gear. Di Eq preamps Like the pure xlr are good
with it. I use a Grace Felix ., The m80 sounds good no matter what.
So its my preference. less fuss on stage.
Not as natural as the kk but not bad at all.

gfirob · #4 12-17-2018, 05:40 PM

A K&K and Tonedexter is going to get you as close to a microphone sound as you can get, IMHO. And you get a tuner and a boost built in. Not for everybody, but for those in its sweet zone, there is nothing like it.

ricdoug · #5 12-18-2018, 11:06 PM

Choreography with a single condenser microphone such as an MXL990 will suffice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSeqKj8ySVo

HectorHeadgear · #6 12-19-2018, 01:47 AM

I've been performing bluegrass guitar at a semi-pro level for 15 years, using several guitars along the way. I have a K&K in my D-28 and have loved it for a long time, I don't think you can go wrong. Right now my axe is a Maton ECW80C, ONLY because of the pickup. It's just awesome. But it's not as pretty as a martin or santa cruz; it just cuts through a mix just right.

Something to consider: If you intend to just play rhythm guitar, a pickup by itself will do the job. However, if you intend to play rhythm AND solo, you need to find a way to boost your signal for your solos OR stick a mic in front of the guitar set to your solo volume and set your pickup volume for rhythm level. (this is what I do) so you can step up to the mic for your solos and back off for rhythm. Otherwise, your rhythm will be too loud and your solo will be too quiet.

When I was hunting for a pickup, I tried the Baggs ibeam and found that it honked too much for my taste. The K&K is honk-free. It still has the piezo "fuzz" that you just can't get around. To solve that, you could try a Fishman Aura pedal (also what I do). It's a secret weapon.

Anyway take everything I say with a grain of salt, but I do everything from coffee shops, acoustic clubs, corporate events, festivals etc. and this is how I've come to the best guitar tone I know how to get.

reely989 · #7 12-19-2018, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricdoug

Choreography with a single condenser microphone such as an MXL990 will suffice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSeqKj8ySVo

It really doesn't unless the environment is just right. Even then, flatpicking solos are very difficult to cut through the rest of a band. It can be done, but there are a lot of elements to getting that right that you may or may not have at your disposal.

reely989 · #8 12-19-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HectorHeadgear

I've been performing bluegrass guitar at a semi-pro level for 15 years, using several guitars along the way. I have a K&K in my D-28 and have loved it for a long time, I don't think you can go wrong. Right now my axe is a Maton ECW80C, ONLY because of the pickup. It's just awesome. But it's not as pretty as a martin or santa cruz; it just cuts through a mix just right.

Something to consider: If you intend to just play rhythm guitar, a pickup by itself will do the job. However, if you intend to play rhythm AND solo, you need to find a way to boost your signal for your solos OR stick a mic in front of the guitar set to your solo volume and set your pickup volume for rhythm level. (this is what I do) so you can step up to the mic for your solos and back off for rhythm. Otherwise, your rhythm will be too loud and your solo will be too quiet.

When I was hunting for a pickup, I tried the Baggs ibeam and found that it honked too much for my taste. The K&K is honk-free. It still has the piezo "fuzz" that you just can't get around. To solve that, you could try a Fishman Aura pedal (also what I do). It's a secret weapon.

Anyway take everything I say with a grain of salt, but I do everything from coffee shops, acoustic clubs, corporate events, festivals etc. and this is how I've come to the best guitar tone I know how to get.

Yeah, I have plans for a boost pedal. I flatpick a solo on pretty much everything we do. I might splurge for the Aura pedal as well. Do you run the K&K straight into the Fishman?

craigj · #9 12-19-2018, 11:19 AM

K&K into Red-Eye DI. Not much EQ but compact and with a boost button.

noledog · #10 12-19-2018, 02:12 PM

* I think an M80 would be an excellent choice for a smooth tone, especially for soloing...no plincky/quacky piezo sound. The M80 has excellent sustain note to note and is great when bending notes...plus it's non-invasive, feedback resistant and once eq/dialed in, it can be very warm and full.

** In the video below, I find the Lyric most natural, but the soloing/flatpicking sounds so good with the M80; the finger slides were sweet, trebles are phat and the nuances are heard. I liked the Anthem the least in this setting, very quacky and thin imo...I use an M80 in my D-18 for certain performing applications and while I love it for flesh fingerstyle, it also excels at flatpicking too; especially with a BlueChip TAD-1R 60 on some medium PB strings!

Vancebo · #11 12-20-2018, 08:47 AM

There are a few mics that attach to the guitar body. K&K Meridian, DPA 4099 are two that I can think of the others don’t come to mind. You always risk feedback. I agree on the any piezo pickup with the Tonedexter suggestion as long as you can always plug into AC power. If you want simpler than that, get a K&K into a Red Eye DI. Only has one knob for EQ and a boost button for solos. Runs off battery or phantom power. If you want even cleaner than that I unashamedly endorse the Dazzo through a Sunnaudio Stage DI. It runs off battery or phantom as well and has just a treble, bass and volume knobs. The Dazzos an be selected to match the bass response of your guitar while the K&K cannot. This is a big advantage because that gives you the benefit of not needing any or very little EQ. So if you are playing a Martin dread, 60’s might be a good choice. I play a Collings dread and have 70’s in mine. Could have gone with 60’s though. It’s really not a big deal to drill the hole and glue the pickups under you bridge plate. You just have to make the decision. It won’t hurt. 😁

gfirob · #12 12-20-2018, 09:38 AM

"I agree on the any piezo pickup with the Tonedexter suggestion as long as you can always plug into AC power."

On another thread this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007RQW5WG...v_ov_lig_dp_it

was suggested as a battery power supply for Tonedexter, estimated to be good for about 6 hours of play. It costs $24. James May (the inventor of Tonedexter) endorsed the suggestion.

martingitdave · #13 12-20-2018, 10:46 AM

Acoustic Guitar magazine recently did an article on the bluegrass scene. Basically, the pros are using one of a few options. Most are using a passive K&K with outboard preamps. Some are also using the LR Baggs Lyric microphone. The Lyric was designed with the Martin Dreadnought in mind and tend to sound good in those guitars. I also know a few pro grassers who are using the active K&K systems with the microphone and the pure mini. For what it's worth, I use the K&K passive in my guitars with a few different preamps, including the ToneDexter. But, mostly I go straight into whatever board they have.