New Taylor 717 Day....Part Two

[jklotz]

I watched a video with Andy Powers and he specifically stated there will not be a cut away version. Course' I guess that could change in the future, but he seemed fairly definitive in his statement.

[Groberts]

Shades of Blue, I hope its OK that I post these here. I made a few more recordings of the Taylor Grand Pacific 717E Builders Edition that I was privileged to demo over the past few days.

I am returning it back to Rainbow Guitars on Tuesday morning, so I made a couple more quick recordings. (Santa Cruz Mid tension strings). PS: I do not work for Rainbow. I am just a paying customer and friend of the shop.

Taylor Grand Pacific 717E - Quick E Major Demo


Taylor Grand Pacific 717E Builders Edition Demo w/commentary


Taylor Grand Pacific 717E Builders Edition - G major Demo

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Shades of Blue, I hope its OK that I post these here. I made a few more recordings of the Taylor Grand Pacific 717E Builders Edition that I was privileged to demo over the past few days.



I am returning it back to Rainbow Guitars on Tuesday morning, so I made a couple more quick recordings. (Santa Cruz Mid tension strings). PS: I do not work for Rainbow. I am just a paying customer and friend of the shop.



Taylor Grand Pacific 717E - Quick E Major Demo





Taylor Grand Pacific 717E Builders Edition Demo w/commentary





Taylor Grand Pacific 717E Builders Edition - G major Demo

Sounds great Gary!

[Jaden]

Thanks for the demos Groberts, it was a fine demonstration of the 717 and answers some questions I’ve had about the Grand Pacific in general.

The sustain is all there but whoa(!), *super thin* trebles and thin all around, no compression, no oomph, no punch, and it reminds me of some other large guitars with an open voice but lacking power (volume is a different matter).

I think it’s worth to compare the GP voicing with the diametrically opposed J-45 which has all the murk and growl going on under the hood, and keep in mind those attributes have made it popular with porch pickers and regular folk for decades.

The GP strikes me as a professional grade instrument good for the studio but too polite.

Thanks again for the demos.

[12barBill]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Thanks for the demos Groberts, it was a fine demonstration of the 717 and answers some questions I’ve had about the Grand Pacific in general.

The sustain is all there but whoa(!), *(super thin* trebles and thin all around, no compression, no oomph, no punch, and it reminds me of some other large guitars with an open voice but lacking power (volume is a different matter).

I think it’s worth to compare the GP voicing with the diametrically opposed J-45 which has all the murk and growl going on under the hood, and keep in mind those attributes have made it popular with porch pickers and regular folk for decades.

The GP strikes me as a professional grade instrument good for the studio but too polite.

Thanks again for the demos.

Its funny how we hear different things. If there is one thing I DO hear its thick, fat trebles on that guitar. There is no doubt about that for me.

[jklotz]

I hear them. On mine, they are there (717e). That is until I threw some light gauge strings on it anyway. I determined pretty quickly this guitar really needs medium gauge to get the full effect.

I ordered a set of the Santa Cruz medium tension to try. Jeez, I can't believe I just spent $18 on a set of strings. I'm hoping they are worth it.

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by jklotz

..........
..................I ordered a set of the Santa Cruz medium tension to try. Jeez, I can't believe I just spent $18 on a set of strings. I'm hoping they are worth it.

I believe on the right guitars they are very worth it. The guitar will tell you....Good luck!

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by jklotz

I hear them. On mine, they are there (717e). That is until I threw some light gauge strings on it anyway. I determined pretty quickly this guitar really needs medium gauge to get the full effect.

I ordered a set of the Santa Cruz medium tension to try. Jeez, I can't believe I just spent $18 on a set of strings. I'm hoping they are worth it.

The Santa Cruz Mid tension strings last a long time in my experience. I think they improved the Grand Pacific. I loved them on my Martin D-41 also. They are not 'coated' in the sense of Elixirs have a plastic sort of coating. They are chemically treated if memory serves? They last a very long time. Let us know what you think.

[drplayer]

Originally Posted by jklotz

I ordered a set of the Santa Cruz medium tension to try. Jeez, I can't believe I just spent $18 on a set of strings. I'm hoping they are worth it.

Many folks really like them, so I hope they work out for you. But know that the overall tension on a set of SCGC mid-tension strings are actually about the same as a typical light gauge set. In fact, at 163#, they are identical to a set of light gauge John Pearse 600L (.012-.053). Their low-tension set by comparison is 156#. As for the coating, per the SCGC website: “State of the art metallurgy and micro-coating assures long life by preventing corrosive moisture from contacting the core of these nickel and lead-free strings.” Not sure what “micro-coating” is, but clearly it is a coating of some kind.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Thanks for the demos Groberts, it was a fine demonstration of the 717 and answers some questions I’ve had about the Grand Pacific in general.

The sustain is all there but whoa(!), *super thin* trebles and thin all around, no compression, no oomph, no punch, and it reminds me of some other large guitars with an open voice but lacking power (volume is a different matter).

I think it’s worth to compare the GP voicing with the diametrically opposed J-45 which has all the murk and growl going on under the hood, and keep in mind those attributes have made it popular with porch pickers and regular folk for decades.

The GP strikes me as a professional grade instrument good for the studio but too polite.

Thanks again for the demos.

I think that if Gary were to rear back and let loose with some bluegrass, it would change your perception. The GP guitars are anything but thin, and I just sold my D-18 because of how much thicker the sound of the 717 and 517 is.

I've owned a J-45, D-28, and D-18 in the past 2 years, and I can tell you that I believe that the GP is most akin to the D-28. I think that the GPs are more stiffly and heavily braced than Martin's forward shifted scalloped bracing, which would explain the long sustain and fatter trebles. The GP allows you to dig in without overdriving the top and it just keeps giving volume the harder you play.

Gary's style and playing is magnificent, but he doesn't strike me as a heavy handed player. He is delicate, precise, and purposeful. However, once you start digging into the strings and really beating on the strings, the GP delivers the goods.

Gary, if you take offense or don't agree, PLEASE feel free to correct me here bud! lol

[archerscreek]

Originally Posted by Bill Sims

Its funny how we hear different things. If there is one thing I DO hear its thick, fat trebles on that guitar. There is no doubt about that for me.

I think how we listen to the recordings makes a huge difference. I listened on various devices, headphones and no headphones, and heard differences.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

I think how we listen to the recordings makes a huge difference. I listened on various devices, headphones and no headphones, and heard differences.

Not to mention pick thickness, playing style, and how it was recorded. My head is already spinning!

[Groberts]

Really a great dialogue in this thread. What a blessing it is to have this forum and such level headed, remarkable people to share ideas. opinions and experiences with.

Shades; you are 100% correct. I do not typically have a heavy hand. I do tend to play with delicacy more than digging in.

In ways, I hear and perceive what both of you (Jaden and Shades) are talking about. There are ways the Taylor Grand Pacific sounded or felt like it lacked a little 'punch' for 'me', compared to my Martins. I still completely prefer my Martins. One of the reasons is that I feel when I dig in, the Martin is punchier and has more supportive tonal depth and substance behind each note. There are times when I do dig in quite aggressively, but that is not overall my attack or approach.

I would not call the treble notes on the Taylor Grand Pacific "thin". I do on other Taylors, but not this one! In my experience, the treble strings on the Grand Pacific are thicker having more tonal depth and weight than most traditional Taylors; GC, GA, GS bodies.

I don't use thin picks. Usually .88 at the thinnest or 1.0. But in trying to capture the voice of the guitar without overloading the mic on my video recorder, I did not dig in that hard at all. Not on any of these videos.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Really a great dialogue in this thread. What a blessing it is to have this forum and such level headed, remarkable people to share ideas. opinions and experiences with.

Shades; you are 100% correct. I do not typically have a heavy hand. I do tend to play with delicacy more than digging in.

In ways, I hear and perceive what both of you (Jaden and Shades) are talking about. There are ways the Taylor Grand Pacific sounded or felt like it lacked a little 'punch' for 'me', compared to my Martins. I still completely prefer my Martins. One of the reasons is that I feel when I dig in, the Martin is punchier and has more supportive tonal depth and substance behind each note. There are times when I do dig in quite aggressively, but that is not overall my attack or approach.

I would not call the treble notes on the Taylor Grand Pacific "thin". I do on other Taylors, but not this one! In my experience, the treble strings on the Grand Pacific are thicker having more tonal depth and weight than most traditional Taylors; GC, GA, GS bodies.

I don't use thin picks. Usually .88 at the thinnest or 1.0. But in trying to capture the voice of the guitar without overloading the mic on my video recorder, I did not dig in that hard at all. Not on any of these videos.

Gary, it has got to be the more lightly braced scalloped bracing that you prefer in a Martin. Since you do play with a wonderful amount of finesse, you require a more responsive top to get things moving with less effort.

I've made a similar correlation that I find that the GP line is more reminiscent of a D-28 with straight bracing, which would make sense since I believe that the GP series is a much more stiffly braced guitar. I can bang the crap out of mine and it just keeps giving up the goods.

Out of all of Martin's recent offerings, I think I've enjoyed the D-28 the most for my style. I am a flat picker, and I play a lot of bluegrass and DADGAD. It just would make sense that I obviously am just not jiving with lightly built guitars. I like guitars that sound like wood when you hit them, and not strings. Most of the newer Martins sound like pianos and are articulate like typical Taylors, and I just hear harsh strings when I play loudly.

This isn't to say that the more modern Martins aren't killer, but I just think that with my style, I've hit the jackpot with the GP series. But, I can say that if nothing else, I feel vindicated to have finally possibly discovered that my lack of excited for newer Martins must be that the bracing is forward shifted and scalloped.

I want to own another Martin one day, and I believe that I'm going to try and make it special rather than just going out and ordering another guitar. I will be 35 in a couple of years, so I want to search for and plan to get a D-35 when I'm 35. I have always loved the D-35, but I've never bought one because I've thought I needed scalloped bracing.

It's pretty cool to have come to this realization, and whether or not it is all hogwash, it makes sense in my head lol.

[Hoopla]

Ok I have a question for the GP owners. I have decided I prefer the more mellow tone of the 517 over the 717. For fingerstyle it sounds amazing, for flat picking amazing....but for strumming with a pick it well sound thin and like a Taylor and my heart sank. Are those the stock strings? Do the SC mid tension string make strumming with a pick warmer and less pre V bracing Taylor like?