Do you use a mic

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by fitness1

I've been using an external mic since the late 80's when I performed - back then it was an SM57 before I knew better! I had Baggs LB6 in my guitar (about 40 percent of the signal) and the rest coming from the 57



Over the years I've morphed into all K&K's and various external condensors. The one that I've been the happiest with recently is a sE electronics SE5.



It's still about a 60/40 mix, but I've learned to skew the mix with the low end dominating the pickup system and the mic taking the mids and upper frequencies - creating the "air" that is missing from the pickup.

I’m glad you chimed in. I’ll bet your live sound is great!

Most of the commercial dual source systems do what you are talking about with skewing towards the bass with the pickup and letting the mic do more of the treble. I know that the Anthem, the current Fishman Rare Earth Blend, and my Schertler AG6/S-mic all do this.

Another thing about the dual source systems is how they pay attention to phase alignment. On the anthem, the Lyric mic is close to the bridge where the Element pickup is. On the Fishman and Schertler sound hole pickups, the mic extends a short distance from the pickup in the soundhole. On the RRB, the mic is a cardiod. On the Schertler, an omni.

It seems to me that an advantage of using a mic on a stand as you do would be that the stand is isolated from the guitar so you wouldn’t get any coupling noise from the body. On my Schertler pickup, the S-Mic is amazingly isolated, but I still hear a little clothing rustling sound that you probably avoid.

The thing to consider for many people is that using their existing pickup and a mic on a stand in front of them will give them a really good live sound without replacing their pickup with a dual source or investing in a Tonedexter and going through the training process. It’s a really good quick way to improve your live guitar sound using stuff you may already have in your gig bag!

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

A mic is easily the best option when all the other variables are right. Good guitar, good sound system, good acoustics, good sound person, quiet audience, solo guitar, etc. When all the stars aren't aligned, a mic's not so viable. With a band, a noisy room, etc, a pickup allows you to be heard, a mic might not.

I recall a gig some years ago where a bunch of us played at a loud rock bar. It was all solo acoustic, mostly instrumental, but in a very loud room. No idea what we were doing there :-) One player in particular didn't want to plug in, and used a mic. I could see his fingers moving, but that was about it. I remember walking up and standing right in front of the monster PA speakers to see if I could hear him - no luck, basically the mic was picking up the sound of the crowd more than the guitar, so the louder the sound system was cranked, the less guitar you could hear. Hopeless.

I prefer playing in places where a mic works well, but these days, unless it's really perfect, I lean toward using a pickup. If you think pickups have to sound bad, you haven't tried the latest stuff. There are plenty of bad-sounding pickups, but there are also pickups that sound very good, and with things like ToneDexter, a pickup can rival a mic in a live setting, with the added benefit of being able to work in situations where a mic will fail. I've been happy enough with my current pickup setups that I have gladly used it even in cases where a mic would work.

In any case, it comes down to the right tool for the job. Usually a good idea to be prepared for both/either.

This.. For me a mic only works in a few places i play. Ill use it (sm81) in these
places. Also blending pickup and mic has worked. It is all about
the room. The great stars mentioned above can use a mic exclusivly because they are great stars. Folks paid good money to sit and listen to them.
Its rude in these situations to carry on a loud conversation with
friends While Gillian and David are playing. Most places i play
people have paid to eat and drink and socialize. They want to hear the music
but theyre really not there for the music for the most part.
mics dont work well in these venues.

[Tycobb73]

Has anyone played through the k&k meridian? What about the dimarzio black angel? This would be for solo or duo popular music gigs that seat 100 to 200, small breweries. If i ever played in a band I'd probably just grab my 314ce.

[PHJim]

Until the nineties, most acoustic acts were quite happy with mics, and usually reasonably priced mics like SM57s and 58s. Most places I payed supplied the sound systems, so I didn't have to carry my own mics. Then, around the turn of the century, sound techs started asking, "Why don't you have a pickup in your guitar?" Even for a solo or duo act a lot of sound techs were having troubles working with a mic.
Now, at the store where I teach almost all of the guitars above entry level seem to come with a built in pickup.
Listen to Pete Seeger's old Rainbow Quest TV shows where they used one mic and two cameras. There were never any sound problems on those shows and no one plugged in. Except at bluegrass festivals, it seems that the art of working a mic is quickly disappearing.

[Tycobb73]

Originally Posted by PHJim

Until the nineties, most acoustic acts were quite happy with mics, and usually reasonably priced mics like SM57s and 58s. Most places I payed supplied the sound systems, so I didn't have to carry my own mics. Then, around the turn of the century, sound techs started asking, "Why don't you have a pickup in your guitar?" Even for a solo or duo act a lot of sound techs were having troubles working with a mic.
Now, at the store where I teach almost all of the guitars above entry level seem to come with a built in pickup.
Listen to Pete Seeger's old Rainbow Quest TV shows where they used one mic and two cameras. There were never any sound problems on those shows and no one plugged in. Except at bluegrass festivals, it seems that the art of working a mic is quickly disappearing.

This is exactly what perplexes me. And most Martins come without electronics. I may be stupid for not wanting to even use a passive mic and drill the end pin but i don't.

[HeyMikey]

Originally Posted by Tico

Yes, I use this clip-on micro-shotgun mic on my guitars when performing ...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-mounting-clip

It sounds exactly like each of my 8 acoustic guitars.
Not cheap at $619, but it takes only a few seconds to move it between guitars, and requires no installation or holes drilled into my precious guitars.
That considerably lowers the effective price.
It needs +48v phantom power.

Attachment 24833

Tico, I’ve seen you or someone post about this mic before. The concept is really appealing and makes sense especially when switching between multiple instruments. How is it in loud / noisy situations, like a chatty bar or with other players? Does it pickup a lot of external sounds or do you find it tone pretty directional? The reviews also indicate the clip attachment is not very good and easy to knock off or I assume misalign. Maybe that was with an earlier version?

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by Tycobb73

This is exactly what perplexes me. And most Martins come without electronics. I may be stupid for not wanting to even use a passive mic and drill the end pin but i don't.

Since I drilled the endpin on my Martin I'm on my third pickup. It's not like it commits you to a single pickup.

[Silly Moustache]

Yes, just my old Rode NT1 - for voice and guitar (and Mando bob etc.)

Last night I saw a five piece band playing into just the one Ear Trumpet - Louise.
I was impressed abut how well it picked up vocals regardless of distance.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by PHJim

.
Listen to Pete Seeger's old Rainbow Quest TV shows where they used one mic and two cameras. There were never any sound problems on those shows and no one plugged in.

That's of course exactly where a mic shines. In a studio, totally quiet, just instrument and mic. Those shows are almost like you're playing in your living room, no mic even required if you were there in person. Not a noisy bar, or competing with a band or other instruments. So I don't think there's any mystery there. In a controlled studio setting, I'd use a mic.

[gfirob]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Tonedexter in this regard, since in many instances (though not all) it presents a sound very close to a guitar through a condenser mike (if that is what it was trained on) with all the convenience and lower stress of a pickup. I play multiple guitars as a soloist with the same cable, just switching wavemaps on the unit for each guitar—one click on the little dial. All my guitars have K&K's.

Not for all situations or for everybody, but most of the time a great solution to this problem.

[Tycobb73]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Since I drilled the endpin on my Martin I'm on my third pickup. It's not like it commits you to a single pickup.

It's not that, it's that im drilling into my guitar, which is an irreversible mod, albeit a small 1. I put strap locks on a 73 sg i had. Figured making the holes a little bigger was better than the possibility of dropping it. Maybe i just need to get over it.

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by PHJim

it seems that the art of working a mic is quickly disappearing.

Indeed.

This topic drives me nuts because every single time it comes up, there is a gaggle of "experts" saying mics sound better, but it can't be done.

It simply can't be done. Too much crowd noise, feedback, blah, blah, blah.

And yet it IS done every single day by multitudes of players.

My 1933 Gibson mandolin has no pickup. It's not going to get a pickup. This was a News Years Eve. gig in a club seating around 400, very loud party crowd with a wall of monitors in front of me with 15's and horns. There were at least 4 Bands, zero time for a sound check, a guy walking around with an iPad had my mix done in 30 seconds. Did I mention everything in this place was loud. Zero feedback.

Every time some "expert" tells you that you can't mic an instrument for a live performance just remember all the times your lying eyes have seen it done.