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  #1  
Old 10-26-2011, 09:24 AM
MaxLaMenace MaxLaMenace is offline
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Default LR Baggs M1 + PADI or K&K Pure mini + Pre phase

Hi guys

For the same price I can get a (used) Lr Baggs M1 and a PADI preamp, or a (new) Pure mini pickup with the internal little preamp (with volume control and phase inverter)

Context: I play a Taylor GS mini, most of my gigs are guitar/vocal only, in pubs. I do strumming (no fingerpicking at all). On stage I have a monitor in front of me for vocal and guitar. Whatever solution would be plug straight to the PA, no acoustic amp.

What I like about the Baggs
- Removable (if don't like it, I can resale the whole thing)
- Feedback resistant
- A lot of tone shapping possible with the PADI

What I dislike about the Baggs
- "Electric" sounding (some say)
- Visual

What I like about the K&K
- seems to sound more natural, but haven't heard how it sounds while strumming
- unobtrusive

What I dislike about the K&K
- I'm scared of feedback
- Tone shapping will be done on the mixer, which often doesn't have a sweepable mid control
- The battery of the little preamp is hard to reach
- The thing is glued to the guitar, if I don't like it, I'm screwed.

Do you think some of these points are wrong?

Which one would you choose is you were in the same context? FIGHT!
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:44 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Well, for what it's worth, if I were you in this situation, I would get the passive K&K and an external preamp with good EQ controls (people report very good things using units like the Ultrasound DI Plus, the Orchid Acoustic Guitar Preamp, the D-Tar Solstice, etc....). Then I'd just get that monitor behind instead of in front of me. People often complain in any case about feedback with K&Ks in larger-bodied guitars. I have a feeling this won't be as much of an issue in a Mini. By the way, what's your reason for gigging with the Mini, instead of a full sized guitar?

I have an M1, and I use it either into a PADI and then to the PA or into a Genz Benz Pro LT. I like it very much, but it's a compromise that works for me in a band setting, where I have to have monitoring out in front of me, and where purity of acoustic tone is just not a realistic consideration. The M1 has a very attractive sound, but why not go for something more genuinely acoustic-sounding if you're playing solo? If you get a small mixer or a two channel preamp, you could also add a mic for an even more realistically acoustic sound.

Louis
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:04 PM
MaxLaMenace MaxLaMenace is offline
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Thanks for the reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
I would get the passive K&K and an external preamp with good EQ controls
that would be too expensive for me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
I have a feeling this won't be as much of an issue in a Mini. By the way, what's your reason for gigging with the Mini, instead of a full sized guitar?
If I have trouble, do you think a feedbackbuster will solved the problem without ruining the tone?

Because this guitar is just so fun to play, that I'd like to bring it on stage

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
If you get a small mixer or a two channel preamp, you could also add a mic for an even more realistically acoustic sound.
yeah, that may be a good idea... I have to think about it...

another option may be a M1 "active" with my BOSS EQ pedal to sculpt the tone in front of the PA... this way: no feed back, eq control, and the gain of the active pickup... what do you think?
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:27 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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I go through a Boss EQ (GE-7) into the Pro LT, using the pedal as a boost for solos. It's a little noisy, but it works. Don't know how it would be going right from th pedal to the PA. The pedal works better for me in the FX loop of the PADI (and from there to the PA), and I like the semi parametric mid EQ on the PADI better than the graphic sliders of the Boss for basic tone control. I only use the sliders to alter my tone a little for my boosted solo sound.

Have you thought about using the Boss pedal with the K&K?

Also: if you put the monitor behind you, you're not going to have big feedback troubles with the K&K. It's having a monitor aimed directly at the guitar's soundboard that causes that problem.

If you'd like to go with a passive SBT and an external preamp, then you might consider getting a JJB Prestige instead of a K&K. A lot cheaper, and many people think they're basically the same pickup. Should save you enough for one of several good, but less expensive preamps.

Louis
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:37 PM
guitom guitom is offline
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I'd go with the M1 and PADI. But then I like the sound AND I think they look sort of cool (though I'd agree that an unseen pickup is better). I have a guitar with a K&K and one with an M1A and I much prefer the M1A. But everyone's different and I know I'm in the minority around here.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:43 PM
MaxLaMenace MaxLaMenace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
Have you thought about using the Boss pedal with the K&K?
I thought that the K&K needs a preamp, as it's passive. That's why I was talking about the active M1 with the Boss EQ... do you think it would work? K&K Mini -> Boss Eq -> PA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
Also: if you put the monitor behind you, you're not going to have big feedback troubles with the K&K. It's having a monitor aimed directly at the guitar's soundboard that causes that problem.
I play with a singer which I know would not like to have the monitor behind her. But maybe just aiming the monitor toward her just a bit, would be enough to avoid feed back... What about the feed back buster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
If you'd like to go with a passive SBT and an external preamp, then you might consider getting a JJB Prestige instead of a K&K. A lot cheaper, and many people think they're basically the same pickup. Should save you enough for one of several good, but less expensive preamps.
Yeah I saw a couple of comments about those... I should have a closer look at them

Thanks for your help Louis!
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:46 PM
MaxLaMenace MaxLaMenace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitom View Post
I'd go with the M1 and PADI. But then I like the sound AND I think they look sort of cool (though I'd agree that an unseen pickup is better). I have a guitar with a K&K and one with an M1A and I much prefer the M1A. But everyone's different and I know I'm in the minority around here.
Thanks for your input. Can you describe what do you prefer in the tone of the M1a over the K&K? Do you play fingerpicking or strumming? I only play strumming...

and I agree it looks kinda cool, since we saw so many rockstar on stage with it...
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:10 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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The Boss EQ really is a preamp. The questions are whether or not it would give the passive K&K enough gain and whether or not the output would be compatible with the line input on a mixer.

But didn't you say you were considering the active version of the K&K? Someone with more experience of the K&K should probably chime in here.

I can say that there's nothing at all wrong with the passive M1 into a PADI with a Boss EQ in the FX loop and from that into a PA mic input via XLR cable. I use that set up all the time for both heavily strummed acoustic rhythm work and short solos. If you like the sound of the M1 (a mag with a bit of top sensing), it's a good basic set up for stage use where you're not looking for a particularly natural acoustic sound. For me, all it takes is a little warm reverb or a short delay, a steep cut in the mids, a little taken off the highs and presence, and depending on the room, sometimes a little off the low-end. Then I'm good to go. I seldom have to touch the feedback notch on the the PADI.

Here's a photo. I don't think that little fake ivory bar looks bad at all! Of course, the guitar is old and scored anyway.....for that matter, so am I!



Louis
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2011, 02:12 PM
guitom guitom is offline
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Right, if Tom Petty, Jakob Dylan and Jeff Tweedy like it, it can't be too bad.

I find the K&K not very musical and lively sounding. It doesn't sound electric at all, it's true, but it seems kind of dull sounding. The M1A is more in your face, but also has more sparkle and livelieness to my ears. I mostly strum.

I should confess I haven't worked all that hard at dialing in the sound on the K&K. I've used a Boss AD-5 preamp which I like a lot, but I should probably put some more time in. In fact, I've only played the K&K guitar out a couple of times since I bought it.
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