Practicing with eyes closed

[Deliberate1]

OP here. Obliged for all the wisdom and observations. Since I posted, I have been using this technique, and with some success. Perhaps, as with most repetiton, I am just tuning into the concept. In fact, when I close my eyes and play, I feel that I actually have a better spacial awareness of where my fingers are and what they are doing - feeling rather than seeing what they are doing. I "see" them, in my mind, moving. I am working on a fingerstyle version of Ditty Wa Ditty, and there is one measure with an F thumb wrap that is a challenge. With my eyes closed, I am more successful getting through it. As if my mind can keep up better than my eyes.
Now, I do not want to make this my habit when playing, for reasons well-stated above. But, as a practice tool, it seems to work.
David

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

OP here. Obliged for all the wisdom and observations. Since I posted, I have been using this technique, and with some success. Perhaps, as with most repetiton, I am just tuning into the concept. In fact, when I close my eyes and play, I feel that I actually have a better spacial awareness of where my fingers are and what they are doing - feeling rather than seeing what they are doing. I "see" them, in my mind, moving. I am working on a fingerstyle version of Ditty Wa Ditty, and there is one measure with an F thumb wrap that is a challenge. With my eyes closed, I am more successful getting through it. As if my mind can keep up better than my eyes.
Now, I do not want to make this my habit when playing, for reasons well-stated above. But, as a practice tool, it seems to work.
David

That's quite like what I experience, the image in my head of what my fretting fingers are up to seems clearer to me than actually looking, the difficulties arise for me with pieces that require frequent position changes .

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

That's quite like what I experience, the image in my head of what my fretting fingers are up to seems clearer to me than actually looking, the difficulties arise for me with pieces that require frequent position changes .

Bingo. To be clearer, and to your point, I was referring to finger movements, not hand travel along the neck. That comes next....
David

[Glennwillow]

Hi David,

When I was learning to play at 16 years old starting back in 1964 my father, a NASA physicist and rocket scientist, did not want me playing guitar. I think because I learned rapidly at that age and because I was really smitten with the guitar, he was afraid that playing music would somehow derail my education. He kept telling me I'd never make much money playing music -- as if that's why I was learning guitar -- and he became progressively more angry about it.

As a result, I spent a lot of time playing inside a storage closet way up in the top of our 3-story house with the door closed so he could not hear me. It got hot in that little closet under the eaves under the roof, so I would turn off the light in there and play in the dark. So I learned at an early age to play without looking at my hands. I think it was helpful in a lot of ways.

Regarding my father, 5 years later when I turned 21 and just before I graduated from engineering school at Purdue, he took me downtown where he bought me a 1967 Martin D-35, which I still have. So he eventually changed his mind about my playing when he knew I was still following through with my education.

Even at my age now, I tend to close my eyes when I'm singing at times, I think to help me concentrate and sing on pitch. I don't know why closing my eyes should be helpful, but for me it seems to be.

- Glenn

[KevWind]

As others have noted (especially when I was actually gigging ) when ever I thought I had a song down cold (after a lot of visual practice) I would play in the dark (not just eyes closed but in the dark ) and did this primarily so as to be able to really focus on how the vocal was fitting with my playing and the feel of the song (which I am not able to do as well if I am looking at the neck) Not to mention it tends to take the mouth out of position to the mic and as others have noted when performing live I always felt it was important to keep reestablishing eye contact with the audience .
As far as taking the mouth out of position here is a great example of how that effects the vocal

Very evident at about 3:40 where not only is my vocal volume reduced, but the presence and intimacy goes away also ,until I look back forward

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi David,

When I was learning to play at 16 years old starting back in 1964 my father, a NASA physicist and rocket scientist, did not want me playing guitar.

- Glenn

Glenn, apologies for not replying to your note till now. I just revisited this post which I started some days ago.
I could say, for dramtic effect, that I feel in the dark much of the time when a guitar is in my hands. But you actually lived that metaphor. Very touching ending, by the way.
I do wonder whether playing in the dark with eyes open vs. playing with eyes shut is interpreted by the brain in the same way. I would guess not. I find if I am walking in the dark with eyes open and am straining to see, the brain struggles mightily to detect visual stimulus. But, with eyes closed, I suspect the brain completely disengages from any visual effort. I will leave it to a physiologist to provide the answer. But no rush. I have no immediate plans to walk around at night, inside or out, playing the guitar. That would be seriously creepy.
Regards,
David

[Retired1]

Re playing with eyes closed - we all have a limited amount of perceptive ability at any given moment and the less we 'squander' on a secondary object , the more we have for our primary activity. for example driving in heavy traffic and carrying on a conversation. We drive better without the conversation. Our eyes use more energy than almost any other part of the body and looking at anything while playing the guitar only decreases the amount of energy available for playing accurately. With just a little practice I have found that I really don't need open eyes to play the guitar, and actually can play better with them closed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DnWtCpcmvM

Hard to tell if his eyes are closed all the time but he doesn't appear to be focusing on his guitar.

[rick-slo]

Proprioception does the majority of it and you get that from repetition. Not sure making a habit of looking away is useful except avoiding the visual clue confusion brought about by fretboard dots when using a capo behind certain frets. 0

[Micawber]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Friends, I he been playing for about three years, and have been taking weekly finger style lessons for about five months. I am still working on a practice strategy that will impress this tired, old grey matter.
Recently, I picked up a book called "The Laws of Brainjo," written by a banjo playing neurologist who turns his medical expertise to the study of musical instruments.
Visualization is one of his practicing strategies - specifically, to record yourself and play it back while visualizing the movements you made to originally make the sound.
I have not yet tried that. But I have, of late, started closing my eyes while playing and visualizing where my fingers are and where they should go. To get the feeling of finger placement without the "crutch" of the eyes. Now, I have not done it long enough to know if it is taking. But, I have to say that it is gratifying to get through a complicated (for me) passage in a song (not yet a whole one) without actually "seeing" my way through it. Though I do wonder if this approach simply teaches the brain to play without visual cues, which then gets confusing once I open them.
I am curious to know if any of you use this technique, if so, how and if it helped you.
Thanks as always.
David

David, I just happened upon this thread while doing a search for the Brainjo book. It’s been a couple months, just wondering how this has worked out for you?

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Micawber

David, I just happened upon this thread while doing a search for the Brainjo book. It’s been a couple months, just wondering how this has worked out for you?

Thanks for reaching out. To be honest, I set the book down and have been meaning to get back to it. Right now, it seems that I need all hands (and eyes) on deck. As I may have mentioned, I am new to fingerstyle and have been working on some peices that require me to see, rather than just visualize, what it am doing. That said, there is a part in Freight Train that has given me some issues - keeping the thumb going in a syncopated part that is awkward for me. I did find that closing my eyes and focusing on my ears and visualizing where my fingers should be has been helpful. And that I should use it more than I do
Thanks again for reminding me I need to spend more time with the book (and perhaps less time with the news....)
David

[Silly Moustache]

early on in my "zoom" teaching sessions in spring 2020, I had a client who showed htreat promise, but could not make chotd changes without loooking at the fretboard, consequently his head was bobbing about all the time.
I reasilsed that he could not learn the muscle memory necessary to effect smoth changes.

I suggested that he practiced with his eyes closed, and his muscle memoery hit in soon after.

I'lol glance down if changing from 1st position to the 7th fret oe whatever, but (I realise) that when I lay a lead break I always close my eyes, because bI can "see" the notes better.

Funny thing is I don't see strings or a fretboard in my mind, and I simply cannot describe what I "see" in my brain, but it is a kind of visualisation.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

early on in my "zoom" teaching sessions in spring 2020, I had a client who showed htreat promise, but could not make chotd changes without loooking at the fretboard, consequently his head was bobbing about all the time.
I reasilsed that he could not learn the muscle memory necessary to effect smoth changes.

I suggested that he practiced with his eyes closed, and his muscle memoery hit in soon after.

I'lol glance down if changing from 1st position to the 7th fret oe whatever, but (I realise) that when I lay a lead break I always close my eyes, because bI can "see" the notes better.

Funny thing is I don't see strings or a fretboard in my mind, and I simply cannot describe what I "see" in my brain, but it is a kind of visualisation.

Lots of typos. Hope you are feeling ok.

[ssstewart]

I play a lot of times with my eyes closed, not cause i can but
#1 it makes me able to hear the sounds/tones better (the subtle things)
#2 if im playing in front of an individual that makes me nervous..it allows me to escape to my own images in my mind as i play and focus on the sound ..not them

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I'lol glance down if changing from 1st position to the 7th fret oe whatever, but (I realise) that when I lay a lead break I always close my eyes, because bI can "see" the notes better.

SM, as I mentioned above, I have been a jazz woodwinds player for more than 40 years, most recently lead tenor in a 18 piece big band (pre-pandemic, of course). The big hole in my music education was failing to learn to read chord changes. But, I have developed, over the decades, a very good ear, mostly by playing along with my jazz heros - Brubeck, Garland, Evans, Stitt, Desmond, etc. If I can hear the music (especially piano and guitar), I can weave an improvised line on top of it. And all of that, as you say, with eyes closed. Not because I can "see" the notes, but because I can "hear" them.
Like Charlie Parker said:

"You’ve got to learn your instrument; then you practise, practise, practise; and then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail."

Nothing there about reading changes. But nothing there about not knowing them.
David

[Micawber]

When I cam across your post it really hit home. A while back I had a guitar instructor tell me I should start playing without looking at my fretting hand. At the time I thought there was no way I could do that. Last month I started getting a lot of brain fog, not sure why but it was pretty severe. Had a lot of eye strain too. Anyway, the only way I could play effectively was to close my eyes. It was the first time I tried this but I was surprised at how good and effortless it felt. Still not sure if it was just muscle memory kicking in but it felt more like a much higher level of focus. Hard to explain but I’ve never felt that connected to a guitar before.