Emerald X-7 stuck in Louisville UPS customs pending toxic substances form

[Captain Jim]

Good that the X7 has finally made it home! A great big thumbs-down to UPS for the fiasco they created. It's hard to pursue repayment on something like this from a distance; can also create more angst for you... but, if it were me (and it isn't), I'd put the time into trying to get UPS to do the right thing. I'd still be in favor of sending them a bill for "willful delay of shipment."

How can they get away with charging you for "storage" that you never asked for? Sounds more like extortion to me.

[steelvibe]

Congrats on your purchase and I'm glad it arrived safely and most importantly that you like it.

Personally I could accept those shipping charges and I'm really sorry you got stuck with them. I work in the industry and feel that Emerald should get a consultant with UPS so that they can convey what it is that they sell and have a liason between them and the customer. I'm not casting a finger of blame but think that somebody should shoulder part of these exorbitant costs other than the customer. This seems like a new issue but not an isolated one since Emerald changed carriers. If there is a forbidden substance than shouldn't it be just that? Forbidden? Brokers should not be able to accept it "for a cost", nor should Emerald be able to ship across US Borders (or any border?).

Emerald is making massive waves in the carbon fiber world and it seems many are very happy with their instruments. I would imagine that Emerald would want that extra money going toward a "next" purchase rather than into the hands of a carrier than may not fully understand what they are doing.

[RP]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

...This seems like a new issue but not an isolated one since Emerald changed carriers...

Having Emerald guitars held for ransom isn't a new issue - I had this happen several years ago, and it wasn't a new issue then either...

[truckee]

I haven't heard back from Emerald today since it's night there now, but last week they were saying that the customs form is pre-filled and all are the same so I think this is a fully a UPS and customs issue. Hopefully, it was one off experience and I was just unlucky.

I'd be happy if Emerald were to split the fees with me and I asked them to see if they could get anything out of UPS money wise. Maybe they could extend me that 10% discount on a custom build because I think I want an X20 with an X10 neck at some point.

[domen]

Originally Posted by truckee

I think I want an X20 with an X10 neck at some point.

super

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by RP

Having Emerald guitars held for ransom isn't a new issue - I had this happen several years ago, and it wasn't a new issue then either...

Correct, but as far as I know this was the first held for ransom regarding a "toxic" substance.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by RP

Having Emerald guitars held for ransom isn't a new issue - I had this happen several years ago, and it wasn't a new issue then either...

But still extremely rare - I recall that incident well.

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Correct, but as far as I know this was the first held for ransom regarding a "toxic" substance.

Right - which makes it look even more like a random act of bureaucracy.

However, given the number of guitars that Emerald ships to the US (clearly from the shipping videos, substantially more than 50% of its production), and that they are all shipped with the same paperwork, and how few of these occurrences are reported, I still have a hard time understanding how Emerald is responsible.

Any reimbursement they provide is above and beyond, as far as I’m concerned.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

However, given the number of guitars that Emerald ships to the US (clearly from the shipping videos, substantially more than 50% of its production), and that they are all shipped with the same paperwork, and how few of these occurrences are reported, I still have a hard time understanding how Emerald is responsible.

I'm not suggesting Emerald is responsible, but we really don't have much of a clue about how rare an event this is. We know roughly how much of Emerald's sales are bound for the US and we know how many incidents of this type are reported HERE, but we really don't have any idea how often this happens to the bulk of Emerald's US customers who aren't active on the AGF...

Emerald probably has some idea, but we don't. And they're clearly not causing the problems that happen, but if it's happening a LOT, they might want to get somewhat proactively involved on behalf of their customers. I'm not sure how, I don't know if there's anything they can do. But maybe they could sort of self-insure, maybe add $10 to the cost of each guitar, hold that money aside, and use it when one of these problems come up to help out the customer affected. I have no idea how feasible this would be - it would probably depend on how often it actually does happen, but Emerald probably knows pretty close to how often it happens and how much they'd need to accumulate to help out customers affected in a given year. It might be feasible, it might not be, but it would probably give US customers more of a comfort level about ordering a guitar from overseas...

Just a thought. I've bought two Emeralds direct and both arrived quickly and without incident. I'd have been OK adding a few bucks to each of those orders to help out those who get hit with these charges...

-Ray

[RP]

Originally Posted by raysachs

I'm not suggesting Emerald is responsible, but we really don't have much of a clue about how rare an event this is. We know roughly how much of Emerald's sales are bound for the US and we know how many incidents of this type are reported HERE, but we really don't have any idea how often this happens to the bulk of Emerald's US customers who aren't active on the AGF...
-Ray

Exactly...............

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by raysachs

I'm not suggesting Emerald is responsible, but we really don't have much of a clue about how rare an event this is. We know roughly how much of Emerald's sales are bound for the US and we know how many incidents of this type are reported HERE, but we really don't have any idea how often this happens to the bulk of Emerald's US customers who aren't active on the AGF...

Of course - we’re a minority community here. However, I’d offer two points:

1) there’s a pretty active CF page on Facebook, which includes a lot of Emerald customers, either first time, or adding to their collection. I’ve not seen a single report of this kind of thing there, and goodness only knows, FB provides a forum for whiners of all shapes and sizes.

2) if it really was a widespread issue, don’t you think that we’d have seen some kind of policy change on Emerald’s part by now?

Originally Posted by RP

Exactly...............

See above.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

I still have a hard time understanding how Emerald is responsible.

Not enough information so that is why I'm not implying it is Emerald's fault (and tried to word my post accordingly). I really don't have a dog in this fight? I don't own an Emerald (but I want one )

However, Emerald is the seller and when problems like this arise I don't see how they are absolved of any responsibility. If I'm a good seller/manufacturer I'm going to take stuff like this seriously and I think Emerald does- that's really all I'm saying. I had at least an idea of how to fix this (as did Ray and his is a very good one), and for all we know Emerald already has such a plan in place.

After listening to Alistair's recent video interview with Alex Ryan about his own personal philosophy (and the general direction of Emerald), he has my total attention and respect, but I wont' take back anything negative I've said. I've done the same to other manufacturers too. I think this forum helps types like Alistair to build the best business he can. I believe that he appreciates the banter on this forum- it's like an oasis of information for him even if sometimes it's negative or critical.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Not enough information so that is why I'm not implying it is Emerald's fault (and tried to word my post accordingly). I really don't have a dog in this fight? I don't own an Emerald (but I want one )

However, Emerald is the seller and when problems like this arise I don't see how they are absolved of any responsibility. If I'm the seller I'm going to take stuff like this seriously and I think Emerald does- that's really all I'm saying.

Oh, I quite understand. It’s not easy to figure out.

Let’s see how this one plays out, and if there are any more.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

Of course - we’re a minority community here. However, I’d offer two points:

1) there’s a pretty active CF page on Facebook, which includes a lot of Emerald customers, either first time, or adding to their collection. I’ve not seen a single report of this kind of thing there, and goodness only knows, FB provides a forum for whiners of all shapes and sizes.

2) if it really was a widespread issue, don’t you think that we’d have seen some kind of policy change on Emerald’s part by now?

Good points. Not sure if we'd have seen a policy change from Emerald, as wrapped up as they've been in dealing with a rapidly (it seems) growing business and maintaining QC and whatnot. But I suppose if it was bad enough, they'd feel compelled to try something.

I just know that everything went smoothly for me and I was a satisfied customer - liked one of the guitars, the other not as much. But if I'd been hit with an additional multi-hundred dollar surcharge after spending north of 2 grand for the guitar, that would have really spoiled the experience for me. Risk aversion is a funny thing - we all know that, for example, child abductions happen statistically almost never, but when they do, we ALL hear about them and react at a gut level. And we probably over-protect our kids because of that gut level fear even if it's not terrible rational. I don't know if these stories would scare me off of ordering another Emerald if I was in the market, but they'd definitely affect my attitude while I waited anxiously for it to show up at my door...

Again, not Emerald's responsibility, but maybe in their interest to try to help...

-Ray

[Captain Jim]

Seems that we may be getting off point here, with solutions on how this shouldn't be a burden to Emerald or the customer. The only one "coming out ahead" on a situation like this is UPS. Each customer gets charged a few bucks extra so that money can be given to UPS? Emerald should split the cost with the customer so that money can be given to UPS??

The issue is: UPS is sticking it to the person they are charged with the responsibility of getting the package to, due to their own incompetence... whether that might be a "self important" UPS employee, or an "honest mistake" on their part, but the fact is: they are charging unwarranted fees because of their mishandling of the situation. Clearly, there is nothing hazardous in a carbon fiber guitar, even if it has an exotic veneer. While UPS stalls the delivery, they add insult to injury by charging the person (who is NOT their customer - they agreed to deliver the package for a set price with Emerald) for "storage" while they let it sit.

If I had a dog in this fight, I would be raising holy-hell with UPS. This is a small scale version of ransomware. If they come back with, "It is Customs, not us," then UPS should be fighting with Customs for their customer. If someone else is having to pay for it, it becomes easy to say, "Not our problem."

This whole thing makes me want to never use UPS to ship anything, anywhere. Only when it costs them time, money, and customers will they give this the attention it should have.

UPS has made a mess of what should be a happy buying experience. The guitar buyer won't get that experience back. UPS should be working hard to make this right, including a refund of all additional fees paid.

[truckee]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Seems that we may be getting off point here, with solutions on how this shouldn't be a burden to Emerald or the customer. The only one "coming out ahead" on a situation like this is UPS. Each customer gets charged a few bucks extra so that money can be given to UPS? Emerald should split the cost with the customer so that money can be given to UPS??

The issue is: UPS is sticking it to the person they are charged with the responsibility of getting the package to, due to their own incompetence... whether that might be a "self important" UPS employee, or an "honest mistake" on their part, but the fact is: they are charging unwarranted fees because of their mishandling of the situation. Clearly, there is nothing hazardous in a carbon fiber guitar, even if it has an exotic veneer. While UPS stalls the delivery, they add insult to injury by charging the person (who is NOT their customer - they agreed to deliver the package for a set price with Emerald) for "storage" while they let it sit.


If I had a dog in this fight, I would be raising holy-hell with UPS. This is a small scale version of ransomware. If they come back with, "It is Customs, not us," then UPS should be fighting with Customs for their customer. If someone else is having to pay for it, it becomes easy to say, "Not our problem."

This whole thing makes me want to never use UPS to ship anything, anywhere. Only when it costs them time, money, and customers will they give this the attention it should have.

UPS has made a mess of what should be a happy buying experience. The guitar buyer won't get that experience back. UPS should be working hard to make this right, including a refund of all additional fees paid.

I definitely agree with all of that. I have sent an email to the UPS brokerage person asking for an explanation as well as refund. I'm hoping Emerald will do the same as it seems to be in their interest to do so.