Room treatment materials - options to rockwool

[broy]

Hi All,

I was looking at the thread at starting recording, and I'm looking to start at the easiest level... recordings / videos for friends and family.

Having said that I have an iPhone and Apogee mic that plugs into it.

One tip in the section is one of the easiest ways to make an improvement in recorded sound is a simple sound treatment of 2 panels in a V shape in front of you. From what I saw - the recommended materials for those panels was rockwool.

Are there less expensive materials than rockwool that would work, or is rockwool really the way to go for this application?

Thank you for any input... rgds - bill

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by broy

Are there less expensive materials than rockwool that would work, or is rockwool really the way to go for this application?

Rockwool is the way to go. Accept no substitutes. If there was a proven alternative, people here would be recommending THAT.

If you are starting out, why not try and see what you can do without room treatment, expensive microphones, specific plugins.

Just get started. You'll quickly see (and hear) what is working or not.
Then, if you try different things to improve, you'll have a baseline to compare to.

I see many recording beginners get wrapped around the axle, paralyzed by the thought that they are missing a crucial (fill in the blank) and somehow all their recordings will sound terrible.

[jim1960]

Owens Corning 703 insulation is excellent for absorption panels also but I'd rather be working with rockwool than fiberglass.

[b1j]

I just bought a bundle of 8 Rockwool batts, 24”x 48” x 3”, for about $11 per batt. But I am making eight panels, so that was economical for me.

I have thought it would useful if we could find people near us to share an 8-pack.

[broy]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Rockwool is the way to go. Accept no substitutes. If there was a proven alternative, people here would be recommending THAT.

Thank you, figured as much - but wanted to confirm

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

If you are starting out, why not try and see what you can do without room treatment, expensive microphones, specific plugins.

Just get started. You'll quickly see (and hear) what is working or not.
Then, if you try different things to improve, you'll have a baseline to compare to.

I see many recording beginners get wrapped around the axle, paralyzed by the thought that they are missing a crucial (fill in the blank) and somehow all their recordings will sound terrible.

Lot of sense in that statement. most of my recordings don't sound great... truthfully probably more of the playing and that's where i should focus.

Originally Posted by jim1960

Owens Corning 703 insulation is excellent for absorption panels also but I'd rather be working with rockwool than fiberglass.

TY sounds like rockwool is the way to go.

Originally Posted by b1j

I just bought a bundle of 8 Rockwool batts, 24”x 48” x 3”, for about $11 per batt. But I am making eight panels, so that was economical for me.

I have thought it would useful if we could find people near us to share an 8-pack.

TY, I must've been looking at something different, the ones I was looking for was about $200 for a single 24 x 48 sheet.

[ChuckS]

There are various Rockwell products. The semi-rigid and dense 24”x48” panel, such as rockboard 60 or 80, work down at lower frequencies than the less dense stuff. Also, you need thickness for lower frequencies; at least 2” and 4” is better.

[rick-slo]

Another plug for https://www.atsacoustics.com/panels. Professionally made panels and and very effective room acoustic control.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by broy

TY, I must've been looking at something different, the ones I was looking for was about $200 for a single 24 x 48 sheet.

Humm ?
https://www.acoustimac.com/roxul-rb8...hoCejQQAvD_BwE
https://www.lowes.com/pd/ROCKWOOL-SA...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

[b1j]

Originally Posted by broy

TY, I must've been looking at something different, the ones I was looking for was about $200 for a single 24 x 48 sheet.

Maybe that was for a completed panel? I also bought pine and two kinds of fabric, pine, hinges and handles. All in, I’m at about $40 per panel.

The type I used is the branded Rockwool product Roxul Safe N Sound. I was advised by those in the know here to use the 3” thickness at a minimum, although I understand that some use two 2” batts. That probably gets expensive.

[Acousticado]

I intend to go the route that b1j has...that is to dyi my own acoustic panels using Rockwool. Given other things I have on my walls, likely I’m going to have to use 16”x48”x3” (actually 15”x47”) batts rather than 24” wide. I assume I’ll be losing 33% absorption efficiency which will hopefully be ok with the 12 or so panels I’ll place around the fairly large basement rec room.

With some of these panels, I’m thinking to install a narrow cross-piece of wood behind the front fabric covering to be able to affix a guitar wall hanger so as to use the panels as a backdrop to hang/display my guitars (my RH is good enough year round to leave out of cases).

For some other panels, I may want to hang some sort of art in front of the fabric. For yet a couple more at the far end of the room, I’m thinking to place a couple of panels behind the wall mounted TV. I’m wondering if such “obstructions” will significantly reduce panel absorption, or will the sound make its way to no apparent adverse performance.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

For some other panels, I may want to hang some sort of art in front of the fabric. For yet a couple more at the far end of the room, I’m thinking to place a couple of panels behind the wall mounted TV. I’m wondering if such “obstructions” will significantly reduce panel absorption, or will the sound make its way to no apparent adverse performance.

I think the 'obstructions' may reduce some absorption, especially if they are reflective (like a TV). On the other hand, bass buildup is not only first reflection stuff, so panels could still have an effect, just less.

[TBman]

I bought a few of these over time, but I did start with just 2 set up in a V as in the OP

https://www.atsacoustics.com/item--A...x-4--1008.html

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

I think the 'obstructions' may reduce some absorption, especially if they are reflective (like a TV). On the other hand, bass buildup is not only first reflection stuff, so panels could still have an effect, just less.

Thanks! Fwiw, the photo below is from the GiK website that I just found. So I guess hanging guitars on the panel isn’t a bad thing to do. I do appreciate what your saying about flat, reflective surfaces like a TV, but as you say, perhaps something will be better than nothing especially since that’s about all the treatment I can do at the far end of the room. As for hanging art on the panels, perhaps a small enough size and perhaps not necessarily flat will help. Thanks again for the feedback.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by b1j

The type I used is the branded Rockwool product Roxul Safe N Sound. I was advised by those in the know here to use the 3” thickness at a minimum, although I understand that some use two 2” batts. That probably gets expensive.

That's because Safe'n'Sound doesn't have the acoustic properties of the Rockwool 60 or 80; Safe'n'Sound is less dense, so needs more thickness to do the job. It is cheaper, but it comes out in the wash.

I use 6" corner traps with Safe'n'Sound in my room, but 2" and 4" panels with OC703 on the walls and freestanding panels.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by TBman

I bought a few of these over time, but I did start with just 2 set up in a V as in the OP

https://www.atsacoustics.com/item--A...x-4--1008.html

Barry, that’s a pretty good price for not having to make them yourself. The jute seems hardy and scuff resistant, and the colors are a nice touch.

I do wonder about the plywood back. I guess if they’re going hard up against a wall, you have a hard surface at the back anyway. But I read that having a little air space in the back cuts down on reflections. Sound goes in, is partially absorbed, the remaining sound reflects on the wall, then travels back through the entire absorption panel on its way out. Double absorption? Who knows?

For me, an acoustically open back is important because I’m also going to use the panels as free-standing gobos around me when recording. I didn’t want a reflective surface close to the guitar.

I can see how the rigid ply back stabilizes the rectangular shape, which otherwise is subject to deformation at the corners (unlike a triangle, but I’m not going to make triangles!). But I came across a method to keep the corners square and still have an open back. Plus, there’s a 3/4” air gap in the back. Once I saw that, the light went on and I unwound myself from the axle and got to building them.

One prototype down, seven to go. I have to buy two more 1x4s for 49” lengths, and then finish the milling by planing all the pine to thickness. Maybe two hours’ work. Once that’s done, it’s a quick run through the Kreg jig, bore some fastening holes, screw them together, wrap and staple the fabric, and smooth the edges.

But at $90 a panel, I’m not saving much per hour of work: $800 for pre-made vs. about $330 material cost plus elbow grease to make them myself.