Does the one dexter help with low end feedback from K&K - Page 2

phcorrigan · #16 09-08-2023, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

Which tonedexter model do you have? I’m not really interested in waiting for the newest one if the one that is for sale now is great. I know there was a tone Dykstra 2.0 or something like that is that the model that y’all are referring to? I’m about to step on a credit card.

The current model is not available due to supply chain issues. The new model should be available this fall. I just took a look at eBay, Reverb, and the Marketplace here and there seem to be none on the used market.

martingitdave · #17 09-08-2023, 01:12 PM

This is one of the primary features of ToneDexter.

jennconducts · #18 09-08-2023, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

Which tonedexter model do you have? I’m not really interested in waiting for the newest one if the one that is for sale now is great. I know there was a tone Dykstra 2.0 or something like that is that the model that y’all are referring to? I’m about to step on a credit card.

There is only one model, with the new one coming out in the fall. I believe that the original one is no longer being sold.

I second the enthusiasm for both the Ultratonic PU and the TomeDexter.

Jenn

fwphoto · #19 09-08-2023, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

I realize changing the bridge plate had an effect, but, in your opinion, is there a significant difference between the "complete' Ultra Tonic and the conversion kit?

OK, first a bit of a correction. I played both an OM-21 & an old D-18 in a large, loud band & had terrible feedback issues with both. Both were equipped with K&K mini pickups. The only thing I found that helped was a soundhole cover, even after lots of EQ tweaking. I heard about the Ultra Tonic & the availability of a version to convert the K&K. I forgot I decided to convert the *OM-21* K&K equipped guitar first & not the D-18 to the Ultra Tonics. Sorry. :-( The OM-21 ended up with zero feedback & really good string-to-string balance as well as an overall better sound quality (IMO) than the K&K alone. It was so good that from then on I only used the OM-21 in that venue. I had decided to convert the D-18 but decided to get some work done first by Brian Kimsey before even messing with the pickup. Bryan would have done the conversion but that would have required him to remove the K&K from the large rosewood bridgeplate & then install it + the Ultra Tonic conversion on the new maple plate. I decided to just go ahead with the full Ultra Tonic instead. Once I got the D-18 back from Bryan I actually sold the OM-21. The "Kimseyfied" D-18 is amazing & currently it's my only stage guitar. I'll probably install an Ultra Tonic in another guitar at some point but right now the D-18 is the only guitar I own with a pickup. Fortunately it sounds great!

Sorry for my confusion. I guess I ain't getting any younger. :-)

So, back to your original question. I'm sorry I suggested that I had the K&K in the D-18 (rather than the OM-21) converted before swapping it out for the OEM version. That was a "Senior Moment" so I can't specifically give you an answer to that. That said, since both versions share the same electronics on the endpin jack circuit-board as well as the additional transducer(s), I doubt there is much of a sonic difference between the versions.

Bottom line for me? The Ultra Tonic has been a game changer. I had struggled with feedback for quite a while ending up with a soundhole cover as the best solution with my K&K equipped working guitars. When I heard about the Ultra Tonic I decided to give it a try. It worked for the feedback & I was pleasantly surprised by the improvement in the guitar's overall sound quality. Couldn't be happier!

So, that's my story & I'm sticking to it!

Frank

phcorrigan · #20 09-08-2023, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwphoto

OK, first a bit of a correction. I played both an OM-21 & an old D-18 in a large, loud band & had terrible feedback issues with both. Both were equipped with K&K mini pickups. The only thing I found that helped was a soundhole cover, even after lots of EQ tweaking. I heard about the Ultra Tonic & the availability of a version to convert the K&K. I forgot I decided to convert the *OM-21* K&K equipped guitar first & not the D-18 to the Ultra Tonics. Sorry. :-( The OM-21 ended up with zero feedback & really good string-to-string balance as well as an overall better sound quality (IMO) than the K&K alone. It was so good that from then on I only used the OM-21 in that venue. I had decided to convert the D-18 but decided to get some work done first by Brian Kimsey before even messing with the pickup. Bryan would have done the conversion but that would have required him to remove the K&K from the large rosewood bridgeplate & then install it + the Ultra Tonic conversion on the new maple plate. I decided to just go ahead with the full Ultra Tonic instead. Once I got the D-18 back from Bryan I actually sold the OM-21. The "Kimseyfied" D-18 is amazing & currently it's my only stage guitar. I'll probably install an Ultra Tonic in another guitar at some point but right now the D-18 is the only guitar I own with a pickup. Fortunately it sounds great!

Sorry for my confusion. I guess I ain't getting any younger. :-)

So, back to your original question. I'm sorry I suggested that I had the K&K in the D-18 (rather than the OM-21) converted before swapping it out for the OEM version. That was a "Senior Moment" so I can't specifically give you an answer to that. That said, since both versions share the same electronics on the endpin jack circuit-board as well as the additional transducer(s), I doubt there is much of a sonic difference between the versions.

Bottom line for me? The Ultra Tonic has been a game changer. I had struggled with feedback for quite a while ending up with a soundhole cover as the best solution with my K&K equipped working guitars. When I heard about the Ultra Tonic I decided to give it a try. It worked for the feedback & I was pleasantly surprised by the improvement in the guitar's overall sound quality. Couldn't be happier!

So, that's my story & I'm sticking to it!

Frank

Thanks for the very detailed answer!

markcrawford · #21 09-09-2023, 11:25 AM

Well, I will start by trying to find a tone dexter. I like the Schatten HFN sound from what I hear, but I will invest in the tone dexter first and see how that goes. If anyone sees one....message me.

SpruceTop · #22 09-10-2023, 01:54 PM

IMHO, the LR Baggs HiFi is now the way to go for a single-source, no-fuss/no-muss installation en route to great amplified tone. What's that some of you may say? You don't want a battery and whatever other stuff the LR Baggs HiFi puts in your guitar. To that I say, do it and stop fretting over some kind of "purist" stance! The LR Baggs HiFi is only about $40 USD more costly than the K&K Pure Mini, and you'll likely have to EQ the K&K to get it to sound as good as the HiFi. If you already have a FELiX 2 or other nice preamp, you can route the LR Baggs HiFi through it, just like you would a K&K Pure Mini, and pretend you're doing some kind of knob-twiddling magic even if it's not necessary. Then again, if you have or will buy a ToneDexter DI or Voiceprint DI, you can have a field day trying to do something with those devices to improve your LR Baggs HiFi's tone.

markcrawford · #23 09-10-2023, 04:47 PM

I am not a purist. I have three guitars that I gig with regularly. If I can get a pre to make the K&K work, it is more cost-effective than putting three new pickups in three guitars. Gigging musicians know that you MUST have a pre-amp of some sort to handle at least some EQ. I will have the Tone Dexter anyway. Once I get it, I will see how good I get the K&K to sound. Even if I went with a different pickup ultimately, I would still like to have the ToneDexter.

By the way, It looks like the Ultratonic would be the way to go if I were starting from scratch. I have seen or heard NO evidence that the HiFi is the end-all be-all. Maybe it is. We shall see I suppose.

One question, Has anyone played this pickup in a live setting that can compare it to the K&K as far as low-end controllability? Is anyone using the baggs HiFi that can say it sounds better live than the K&K with eq? Come on, speak up. And please do not tell me about how good it sounds from an acoustic guitar amp. I don't have one and never will. I play with a PA and will not include a guitar amp in my signal. I know some do, but that is crazy to me if you are playing through a PA that you had to load in.

SpruceTop · #24 09-11-2023, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

I am not a purist. I have three guitars that I gig with regularly. If I can get a pre to make the K&K work, it is more cost-effective than putting three new pickups in three guitars. Gigging musicians know that you MUST have a pre-amp of some sort to handle at least some EQ. I will have the Tone Dexter anyway. Once I get it, I will see how good I get the K&K to sound. Even if I went with a different pickup ultimately, I would still like to have the ToneDexter.

By the way, It looks like the Ultratonic would be the way to go if I were starting from scratch. I have seen or heard NO evidence that the HiFi is the end-all be-all. Maybe it is. We shall see I suppose.

One question, Has anyone played this pickup in a live setting that can compare it to the K&K as far as low-end controllability? Is anyone using the baggs HiFi that can say it sounds better live than the K&K with eq? Come on, speak up. And please do not tell me about how good it sounds from an acoustic guitar amp. I don't have one and never will. I play with a PA and will not include a guitar amp in my signal. I know some do, but that is crazy to me if you are playing through a PA that you had to load in.

Mark, let me apologize for the wording in my comment. I wasn't relating it directly to you as I know you only want to get your K&K-equipped guitars working better for you under more venue conditions, especially to eliminate low-end feedback.

The reason I brought up the new LR Baggs HiFi is that both my installations sound really good with all flat EQ even when playing about 5 feet away from a loud acoustic amp or farther from my loud LR Baggs Synapse with the speakers aimed directly at the guitars' tops. I get a full-spectrum tone without any feedback. I believe our Groberts has played his HiFi-equipped Collings dreadnought in some lively rooms and had no feedback issues. Perhaps he'll check in to give you his assessment of the system.

The UltraTonic 3.2 is a good-sounding system as is the Dazzo and of course, both are passive systems.

I have a ToneDexter I haven't used in a couple of years as I want to get a good amplified tone with as little in my signal-chain as necessary. My FELiX 2 definitely is a plus in getting the most out of various systems.

In the meantime, I hope you get your K&K/guitar rigs working the way you want them to under all conditions.

nostatic · #25 09-11-2023, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

I am not a purist. I have three guitars that I gig with regularly. If I can get a pre to make the K&K work, it is more cost-effective than putting three new pickups in three guitars. Gigging musicians know that you MUST have a pre-amp of some sort to handle at least some EQ. I will have the Tone Dexter anyway. Once I get it, I will see how good I get the K&K to sound. Even if I went with a different pickup ultimately, I would still like to have the ToneDexter.

By the way, It looks like the Ultratonic would be the way to go if I were starting from scratch. I have seen or heard NO evidence that the HiFi is the end-all be-all. Maybe it is. We shall see I suppose.

One question, Has anyone played this pickup in a live setting that can compare it to the K&K as far as low-end controllability? Is anyone using the baggs HiFi that can say it sounds better live than the K&K with eq? Come on, speak up. And please do not tell me about how good it sounds from an acoustic guitar amp. I don't have one and never will. I play with a PA and will not include a guitar amp in my signal. I know some do, but that is crazy to me if you are playing through a PA that you had to load in.

My preamp of choice these days is an Empress Para EQ deluxe mk2. While not a "preamp" per se, it has everything you need to deal with eq issues. I've used it on woofy low end - just go narrow q, find the frequency and you're set.

I haven't had a K&K and HiFi in the house at the same time but IME on a gig, the HiFi was way less problematic. My only complaint was the overall level was a bit low so I had to boost it (the Para EQA has an adjustable boost that is footswtichable) to get it the same level as the pickup in my dobro.

I find that modern PAs may have eq features that look good on paper, but I think the Para EQ sounds better and shows you what you're working with as opposed to a preset or window you need to get to. I much prefer bringing a small pedal board if I'm going into a PA (or my amp) than trying to do things in software on the PA (e.g. EV 30M). Ymmv though...

markcrawford · #26 09-11-2023, 06:18 PM

all good...I am intrigued by the new baggs hifi..of course, I am intrigued by any **** thing that is new and supposed to be better lol...this a curse. If it was one guitar, I would probably take a swipe at the new Hifi or the ultratonic...but for three....that is a bigger deal. I will go the preamp way first...if I can't get it where I want it, I suppose I could sell the pre and go the pickup route. I am taking the path of least resistance.

phcorrigan · #27 09-11-2023, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

all good...I am intrigued by the new baggs hifi..of course, I am intrigued by any **** thing that is new and supposed to be better lol...this a curse. If it was one guitar, I would probably take a swipe at the new Hifi or the ultratonic...but for three....that is a bigger deal. I will go the preamp way first...if I can't get it where I want it, I suppose I could sell the pre and go the pickup route. I am taking the path of least resistance.

I have a K&K and a ToneDexter, and I'm considering the Ultra Tonic conversion as well. Not as a replacement for the ToneDexter, but in addition to it.

markcrawford · #28 09-11-2023, 09:16 PM

One of the things the mach 2 pre does for the K&K is give it MUCH better high end air than the regular pure xlr. I have both and the pure xlr is indeed....just in case. They sound that different. I get compliments on my sound all the time, but those folks aren't standing where I am standing. And I have a sound hole cover for all my guitars. They work OK but I don't like using them. Looks like the hifi is cheaper than the ultratonic. I wonder how they compare? I will admit I like the plug-in-and-play idea too, but I am always running through the mach 2 even when playing on large PAs. It is part of my pedal board and the K&K needs it. A battery that lasts 600 hours does not bother me. Just have not heard much from many people who have had both K&K and hifi yet. NO doubt I would like it if it was fairly flat. But then again, the ceo7's have a lot of relative bass. My CJ35 is a different animal. Tons of in-your-face mids.

I would think I might have to use a different pre amp with the hifi but if the mach 2 works with any pickup, that could be a good combination.

martingitdave · #29 09-12-2023, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

One of the things the mach 2 pre does for the K&K is give it MUCH better high end air than the regular pure xlr. I have both and the pure xlr is indeed....just in case. They sound that different. I get compliments on my sound all the time, but those folks aren't standing where I am standing. And I have a sound hole cover for all my guitars. They work OK but I don't like using them. Looks like the hifi is cheaper than the ultratonic. I wonder how they compare? I will admit I like the plug-in-and-play idea too, but I am always running through the mach 2 even when playing on large PAs. It is part of my pedal board and the K&K needs it. A battery that lasts 600 hours does not bother me. Just have not heard much from many people who have had both K&K and hifi yet. NO doubt I would like it if it was fairly flat. But then again, the ceo7's have a lot of relative bass. My CJ35 is a different animal. Tons of in-your-face mids.

I would think I might have to use a different pre amp with the hifi but if the mach 2 works with any pickup, that could be a good combination.

I’ve used both. The HiFi is a nice plug and play pickup. It sounds like an EQd K&K in many ways. I ran it flat. I still use K&K. Every place I play has preamps/DIs available. I have my own if needed.

fwphoto · #30 09-12-2023, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

Looks like the hifi is cheaper than the ultratonic. I wonder how they compare? I will admit I like the plug-in-and-play idea too, . . .

Don't forget there is a K&K conversion version of the Ultra Tonic that would let you try it out on one guitar without having to convert the whole "fleet" of guitars you gig with. Being passive like the K&K it should still work in your K&K environment without have to change up anything in your signal chain. You might end up with one guitar without a soundhole cover & 2 that still have one, though. :-)

Frank