Segovia Documentary on YouTube

[Puddleglum]

https://youtu.be/rFygb9YNujk

^^^ I'm sure some here have seen this, but in case anyone missed it, it's a great film. I've heard of Segovia over the years but had never actually *watched* him play. Just watching his hands is flat out mesmerizing. I also enjoyed his outlook on things and listening to what he had to say. He said he had to "rescue the guitar from the noisy hands" of the flamenco players. That was great. Enjoy!

[rick-slo]

"the noisey hands of the flamenco players"

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

[Fawkes]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

He said he had to "rescue the guitar from the noisy hands" of the flamenco players. That was great. Enjoy!

Segovia did a great deal of damage to the development of the Spanish guitar. He was instrumental in formalizing the division of the instrument into specialties, and as a result both sides of the division were impoverished and slowed in their development.

When he was young he was himself involved in flamenco. He was not the first Spanish guitar player to succeed outside of Spain, but by marketing himself as an elite, by pushing the idea that HE was something special, he succeeded in differentiating himself from the players who played all kinds of music, and so the myth of the "classical" guitar was born and quickly turned into a reality.

He was a fine player for his time and within the boundaries he kept to, and he was a forceful personality who had a lot of impact. But he was not a truthful man ("there was no music"--bull), and therefore his influence was not all for good. That his snobby comments about flamenco are even today still quoted approvingly is enough evidence in that regard.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Segovia did a great deal of damage to the development of the Spanish guitar. He was instrumental in formalizing the division of the instrument into specialties, and as a result both sides of the division were impoverished and slowed in their development.

When he was young he was himself involved in flamenco. He was not the first Spanish guitar player to succeed outside of Spain, but by marketing himself as an elite, by pushing the idea that HE was something special, he succeeded in differentiating himself from the players who played all kinds of music, and so the myth of the "classical" guitar was born and quickly turned into a reality.

He was a fine player for his time and within the boundaries he kept to, and he was a forceful personality who had a lot of impact. But he was not a truthful man ("there was no music"--bull), and therefore his influence was not all for good. That his snobby comments about flamenco are even today still quoted approvingly is enough evidence in that regard.

I haven't watched the video yet, but your post reminds me of the great percussive vs finger style debate that rages here every so often in the steel string world. Some people like the guitar tapping styles of Don Ross and others while others look down at the "beating on a guitar" method of making music. I wasn't aware that it happened in the nylon world as well.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Segovia did a great deal of damage to the development of the Spanish guitar. He was instrumental in formalizing the division of the instrument into specialties, and as a result both sides of the division were impoverished and slowed in their development.

When he was young he was himself involved in flamenco. He was not the first Spanish guitar player to succeed outside of Spain, but by marketing himself as an elite, by pushing the idea that HE was something special, he succeeded in differentiating himself from the players who played all kinds of music, and so the myth of the "classical" guitar was born and quickly turned into a reality.

He was a fine player for his time and within the boundaries he kept to, and he was a forceful personality who had a lot of impact. But he was not a truthful man ("there was no music"--bull), and therefore his influence was not all for good. That his snobby comments about flamenco are even today still quoted approvingly is enough evidence in that regard.

I'm very new to the world of classical guitar and still have a lot to learn. I've always heard Segovia's name but never took the time to learn about him. I actually enjoyed his attitude and comments in that film. He did come off as a bit cocky at times, but very accomplished and successful people often do. He was certainly opinionated and was as entitled to his own view as any of us. Having said all that, I'd like to learn more about the point of view you've presented here as well. I'm sure this whole world is a deep rabbit hole with lots of varying opinions.

[redir]

I don't get why he didn't like the Flamencos when he was one his self and after all he is Andaluz. But it is what it is. I never officially studied classical guitar so perhaps because of that I don't understand why some people say things like, he was good during his time period, and so on because he pretty much blows me away every time I listen. If I could play like that I'd never leave the house.

[nikpearson]

A hugely influential player and one who had many new works written for the instrument as well as transcribing many works originally written for other instruments.

Segovia’s ego appears to be as large as his influence. His approach and fingerings were the only way of playing the pieces, which is arrogant and limiting in equal measure. His right hand positioning clearly worked for him; being adopted by a host of other players in many cases to the detriment of their own playing.

Segovia never recorded (played) Rodrigo’s famous Concierto de Aranjuez and I’ve often wondered if his ego prevented him from acknowledging the genius of a fellow countryman. Rodrigo subsequently wrote the Fantasia para in Gentilhombre specifically for Segovia based on pieces by baroque composer Gaspar Sanz. I’m not so sure that Segovia deserved the accolade of gentilhombre given his dismissal of Rodrigo’s most famous work.

As with most giants in their field, like all people, Segovia was flawed.

[KenW]

Originally Posted by nikpearson

Segovia never recorded (played) Rodrigo’s famous Concierto de Aranjuez and I’ve often wondered if his ego prevented him from acknowledging the genius of a fellow countryman. Rodrigo subsequently wrote the Fantasia para in Gentilhombre specifically for Segovia based on pieces by baroque composer Gaspar Sanz. I’m not so sure that Segovia deserved the accolade of gentilhombre given his dismissal of Rodrigo’s most famous work.

It was public record that Segovia did not care for the excessive upper position scales in the Aranjuez. I’ve performed the Aranjuez with orchestra. Around that time I got to toss a few brews with David Russell. We both agreed that the 1st and 3rd movements required A LOT of work while yielding very little musical reward.

[nikpearson]

Of course the middle movement is the central jewel of this piece, but for me the two allegros either side complete the piece.

David Russell is a wonderful musician, and on the one occasion I had the opportunity to speak to him at length he came across as a very genuine and generous person. He was trying out guitars built by students, one of which was mine!

I may be entirely wrong about Segovia’s reasons for dismissing the piece, but his ego is certainly as large as his talent!

[Fawkes]

Ego's a funny word. We often use it to describe people who make a lot of noise about themselves even though that's likely to be a symptom of having a weak sense of self worth and trying to make up for it.

Segovia signed guitars. He signed the soft top of a 1930 Santos Hernandez with a ballpoint pen, for instance. I think there's a Ramirez he signed too. Okay back then they were just guitars although even then it seems surprisingly brutal.

But he also signed a very rare guitar made by Stradivari. That one would have already been close to 200 years old at the time. No he didn't own it, it was at some sort of presentation. I suppose we should be grateful he signed it on the back.

[AfterViewer]

Thanks much for posting the link, I will have to watch.......
* Enjoyed the video very much. Segovia seems to have had a wonderful sense of humor and a Great Signature.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by AfterViewer

* Enjoyed the video very much. Segovia seems to have had a wonderful sense of humor and a Great Signature.

That was one of my main takeaways as well. He seemed like this jolly old dude who enjoyed his home, his guitar, his pipe, and his pretty wife. He held to his own viewpoint with confidence without seeming arrogant.

Something of a side-note here: As I've gotten more into classical guitar, I notice that I don't much enjoy listening to recordings of it, but I really do enjoy watching people play it. There is something magical about watching the performer's particular approach and interaction with the instrument that makes the music interesting to me. For what it's worth, the same thing happens with me and Bluegrass. Just listening to it is rather boring to me, but when watching the people play it, the music becomes somewhat fascinating.

[sausgirl]

Hello there,
The Allegro Films Segovia videos are excellent for many reasons. They are filmed in co!or and are historically correct and Christopher Nupen who made them was a student of Segovia's and friend and roommate of John Williams, also a student of Segovia!

[AfterViewer]

Noisy Fingers Guitar Classics from Andalusia : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-fiVhf9Sg

[Howard Emerson]

Here's Michael Chapdelaine bearing the brunt......We should all have 1/1000 the talent that Michael has, not to mention the restraint.



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