Does the one dexter help with low end feedback from K&K - Page 3

markcrawford · #31 09-12-2023, 12:25 PM

I am on the verge....I just may do it in one of my CEO7s.

markcrawford · #32 09-13-2023, 10:41 AM

What about the Baggs VoicePrint DI? That looks very similar to tonedexter but uses the iPhone mic. Some folks seem to like it with KK and say has good feedback control. Lucy, splain......

markcrawford · #33 09-13-2023, 04:48 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a6FyyH5i0s
This does not impress me that much. ToneDexter better than the baggs to me.

guitaniac · #34 09-13-2023, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a6FyyH5i0s
This does not impress me that much. ToneDexter better than the baggs to me.

Two pluses for the Voiceprint are that 1) the EQ flexibility in the software is very good, and 2) the single dial anti-feedback is helpful even when the user ISN’T blending any IR into the output signal. During the training process, the Voiceprint finds the three most feedback prone resonant frequencies of the user’s guitar and programs the Voiceprint to reduce those frequencies (in the output signal) as the anti-feedback knob is rotated clockwise when in the play mode.

Albeit, the majority opinion from the folks who’ve used both is that the ToneDexter IRs are better.

markcrawford · #35 09-14-2023, 03:48 PM

Main thing I hear from all of the wave amp or whatever you call it pedals is a very scooped sound. Of course, I rip most of the mids out of my KKs when plying live too, but the notes have teeth. If I did not have trouble with low end feedback, I think that the match 2 pre does a great job of eqing the KK in my guitars. I may take the advice of a couple here and just upgrade one guitar to the ultratonic add on and see what I get. My tech is always way backed up. Be honest with me, how tricky is the installation?

tadol · #36 09-15-2023, 12:58 AM

I have to reinforce that rather than adding a lot of outboard gear to overcome a less than desirable signal from the guitar, start by getting the best signal out of your guitar first -

There is no real difference between adding the Ultratonic upgrade kit to an existing K&K install, or removing the K&K and installing a full Ultratonic setup. The only real advantage to the full 3.2 Ultratonic is in new installations - you only need to glue in 2 plates, rather than the older versions 5 discs. If you have a K&K installed, you just add the extra treble disc, and the bass disc, but then there is a very slightly tricky part - you have to cut the leads from the 3 K&K transducer discs, and solder them to the special Ultratonic circuit board. It’s really not hard if you’ve ever done a bit of soldering, but if not, you may ask someone to help you with it. The full 3.2 Ultratonic has the 4 transducer discs potted in a single, long package, and you still have to add the bass disc, but everything is pre-attached to the circuit board. And you have to install the volume wheel in the sound hole - you don’t really need to, but you probably want to - it works really well. But really, you would not find any real difference in the raw signal between the full 3.2 install and the retrofit install. But after you go through the switch adjustment process on the circuit board, then you’ll really hear where the Ultratonic shines - great bass, clear treble, and if adjusted well, no feedback.

Re: the Tonedexter - if you do not have and rely on one now, then I would not worry about finding a used one - just wait for the TD2 to become available. It sounds like it’ll be maybe November before you could have it in your hands, but with the internal hardware improvements, and added software and features, you’d be wishing you waited, especially since used TD1s seem to be demanding a real premium currently. You may find for many uses, the TD wouldn’t be necessary, you can just plug the Ultratonic straight into a good acoustic amp and get a great sound. But if you’re looking for something a step up from there, or need some of the advanced signal processing/routing that will be in TD2, then wait just a little longer - it’s gonna offer some amazing tools and capabilities baked in that you will definitely want to have a great signal going in to take full advantage of -

markcrawford · #37 09-15-2023, 12:48 PM

I have reached out to a friend of mine who is pretty good at installing these things. I have installed the KNK before myself but I hated doing it. I’m 99.9999999% sure I’m gonna get the ultra tonic add on into one of my CEO sevens. I’ll see how that works. I like the idea of being able to keep my basic sound and just eliminate some of the low in Hassel. Thanks for the advice.

Since I have two Martin CEO sevens, I can compare them directly. They don’t sound exactly alike, but the EQ that they want is exactly the same. Once I get it installed, I’ll come back here and chirp about the difference.

shufflebeat · #38 09-15-2023, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

Since I have two Martin CEO sevens, I can compare them directly. They don’t sound exactly alike, but the EQ that they want is exactly the same. Once I get it installed, I’ll come back here and chirp about the difference.

That would be very useful, direct comparisons are pretty much non-existent on this topic.

fwphoto · #39 09-15-2023, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

I have reached out to a friend of mine who is pretty good at installing these things. I have installed the KNK before myself but I hated doing it. I’m 99.9999999% sure I’m gonna get the ultra tonic add on into one of my CEO sevens. I’ll see how that works. I like the idea of being able to keep my basic sound and just eliminate some of the low in Hassel. Thanks for the advice.

Since I have two Martin CEO sevens, I can compare them directly. They don’t sound exactly alike, but the EQ that they want is exactly the same. Once I get it installed, I’ll come back here and chirp about the difference.

Very nice. I would love to hear your comparison!

Frank

markcrawford · #40 09-15-2023, 07:29 PM

I just talk to my buddy and I’ve already ordered it. As soon as it gets in, I will get him to drop it in. I’ll probably let him do the dip switches because he’s a really good musician and does a lot of the same type of thing that I do. Looks like to me you just need to be sitting in front of a powered speaker or something And let the guitar tell you what frequencies are prone to feedback. Anyway, I will definitely report back when I have a direct comparison. I’m interested myself it’s funny about the Martin’s. They have sort of a scoop sound anyway which is fantastic for a double low in my opinion. Most double Lowe’s, you play, especially vintage ones have a very thick mid range and can be lacking in the base whereas the CEOs have plenty of base. I do think , the addition of another trouble pick up will help those two guitars. My Collings, CJ 35 is a different animal altogether. The mids will absolutely punch you in the face if you’re sitting across from it. I don’t have as much trouble with the lower end when using that bigger guitar but I still have some. I don’t really care about the volume knob so I may leave that off. I don’t like the idea that I can’t get a sound hole cover in there. If I absolutely had to then again, I suppose this pick up is supposed to make the sound hole cover obsolete. We shall see.

tadol · #41 09-15-2023, 07:40 PM

I’d say install and try out the volume control - the UT volume control is not just a signal attenuation control, James has a circuit in there that adjusts the output without cutting the higher frequencies abruptly - works very well. You can always take it out later, and if your main concern is just feedback, you’ll be pleasantly surprised -

markcrawford · #42 09-23-2023, 04:15 PM

Here is a link to a solo gig (my daughter is singing) that I did outside under a shed. Just for an example....I had to literally move the speakers Waaaaay out in front and away because of the low-end getting trapped under the shed with me. Feedback was brutal until I did that. We have one open-air monitor in front of us and I have it pointed towards her. This is the guitar I will put the ultratonic add on in first. There is a lot of treble in the mix but I have to roll with a general mix as I have no sound man. So for those of you that have done this, how much volume did it add to the high E string. I am not sure If I am going to use it or not. I thought I would but I am not sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZKCnaCw_k

SpruceTop · #43 09-23-2023, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markcrawford

Here is a link to a solo gig (my daughter is singing) that I did outside under a shed. Just for an example....I had to literally move the speakers Waaaaay out in front and away because of the low-end getting trapped under the shed with me. Feedback was brutal until I did that. We have one open-air monitor in front of us and I have it pointed towards her. This is the guitar I will put the ultratonic add on in first. There is a lot of treble in the mix but I have to roll with a general mix as I have no sound man. So for those of you that have done this, how much volume did it add to the high E string. I am not sure If I am going to use it or not. I thought I would but I am not sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZKCnaCw_k

Mark, your guitar is kind of bassy but what a wonderful sound your daughter and you have! Your guitar's K&K tonal balance with too much bass, sounds really decent after doing your speaker placement.

markcrawford · #44 09-24-2023, 10:13 AM

I agree for sure. Once I get the ultratonic in there to help with low end feedback, I think it will be clearer and I can certainly use the board EQ (channel) to cut the overall bass. I can cut it on the match 2 as well. I usually leave it pretty flat. That was an outside gig and there were about 150 people there behind that camera. I had to crank the volume and that definitely led to a bass-heavy sound that is probably not that way in smaller venues where I use less Volume.

markcrawford · #45 09-24-2023, 05:28 PM

I got my PA out today and set it up facing me.....begging for feedback of course. I am not sure my Collings CJ35 needs the upgrade. That guitar is easier to control. I think the midrange it has is the focus. I can dial out feedback with the match 2 pretty easily. The Martin Ceos on the other hand....good granny mosses. They really need help. I did flatten out the eq of my PA and that helped some for sure. Still, the Martins were singing. I can't wait to hear how the ultratonic add-on helps. They also need that extra treble sensor too. Again, I am not sure the Collings needs is. Really interesting how that pikup works in different guitars. I hope to get it installed this week and I will report back. I have a gig next Saturday and hope to us the CEO-7 at that gig. It is inside and there is glass behind me in a corner. That is a true test for show.