Love songs

[Charlie Bernstein]

How do you write love songs? I've written hundreds of songs, and many are good — like Forrestal, very very good.

But my love songs are duds. Sometimes maudlin, sometimes trite, always an embarassment. Heartbreak songs, too.

It's not something I'm going to bang my head against — you can't get a pearl from a clam — but I am curious about how you write a love song that works.

[Cecil6243]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

How do you write love songs? I've written hundreds of songs, and many are good — like Forrestal, very very good.

But my love songs are duds. Sometimes maudlin, sometimes trite, always an embarassment. Heartbreak songs, too.

It's not something I'm going to bang my head against — you can't get a pearl from a clam — but I am curious about how you write a love song that works.

Have you ever had your heart broken in your younger days?

[Glennwillow]

I do better when I write in the third person about someone else. For whatever reason, telling someone else's love story is much easier and less sappy. And the point of the song is the same whether it's done in 1st person or 3rd person.

A love song in the first person has to be much more subtle to be effective and not sappy, something like Paul Simon's "Kathy's Song."

- Glenn

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Cecil6243

Have you ever had your heart broken in your younger days?

Younger, middler, and older days. Over and over and over. I'm an equal-opportunity annoyer.

(In fact, "Over and Over and Over" is probably a title waiting for a song.)

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I do better when I write in the third person about someone else.

Good point. I usually write in the third person, too. Whether first or third person, the singers are characters in the songs.

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

For whatever reason, telling someone else's love story is much easier and less sappy. And the point of the song is the same whether it's done in 1st person or 3rd person.

A love song in the first person has to be much more subtle to be effective and not sappy, something like Paul Simon's "Kathy's Song."

- Glenn

Yup. First or third person, it's easy to get heavy-handed.

Sounds like I'm on the right track, anyhow. Thanks!

[ghostnote]

I find it works better if I’m the loser in the story. You always feel your own pain more than someone else’s, as selfish as that may sound. And that makes it more authentic, which makes for a better song. And I like to toss in a little rueful irony, too, if possible - it kinda removes some of the depression. I’m not so good at happy love songs - lost love songs I can do much better.

[zuzu]

Most of mine are pretty upbeat, a few are broken heart criers, a couple of them pretty good. But there are 2 head and shoulders above the rest, both written from real life observed experience, which is very rare for me. One expresses deep doubt about your lover and helplessness in the situation. This I wrote from observing a married couple...thats it...just observing them in social situations. I was proven correct later. The other is the best lyric I've ever done. I ran into an old aquaintence in the grocery store parking lot and he related the confrontation he had with his spouse that morning, a complete surprise to me, they were the "perfect couple" in our circle, but even more surprising to him. He spilled his guts right there and I'm not a doctor, but he appeared to be in something like shock. He was just gutted, heading home to he knew not what. I went home, stewed on it overnight, and the next morning was able to capture that shock, gut-wrenching uncertainty, and confidence slaughter in two short verses and a chorus. Never happened before or since, I usually struggle mightily with lyrics. That is why I keep my love songs happy, because it's easy for me; I am still deeply in love and unbelievably happy with my wife of nearly 40 years, the best person I have ever met.

[Charlie Bernstein]

[QUOTE=ghostnote;7440221]I find it works better if I’m the loser in the story.

Then what about the no-one's-a-loser-I'm-just-in-love song?

Originally Posted by ghostnote

You always feel your own pain more than someone else’s, as selfish as that may sound. And that makes it more authentic, which makes for a better song.

I don't write about myself.

I once heard Justin Hayward of Moody Blues interviewed on the once-big New York rock station WNEW.* The DJ asked him who inspired "Nights in White Satin." Hayward said no one.

The DJ pushed. A song that beautiful must've been inspired by someone, right? Hayward said, "No. It's just a song."

That's what I do. I write songs. They're hardly ever about you or me or a girlfriend or an ex. They're just songs. The few that are about an actual person are the terrrible ones. That's why I don't write many of them.

Originally Posted by ghostnote

And I like to toss in a little rueful irony, too, if possible - it kinda removes some of the depression.

Heh heh. Yeah. This is the Age of Snark, isn't it? For me, songwriting removes depression. The content doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by ghostnote

I’m not so good at happy love songs - lost love songs I can do much better.

There are lots of happy love songs. Actually, that's one of the things I can't pull off. Think of "Here, There, and Everywhere," "Good Day, Sunshine," "My Cheri Amour," "Never Gonna Let Her Go," or "That's the Way She Feels About You."


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* The one Harry Chapin made fun of in his song about WOLD.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by zuzu

Most of mine are pretty upbeat, a few are broken heart criers, a couple of them pretty good. But there are 2 head and shoulders above the rest, both written from real life observed experience, which is very rare for me.

Rare for me, too!

Originally Posted by zuzu

One expresses deep doubt about your lover and helplessness in the situation. This I wrote from observing a married couple...thats it...just observing them in social situations. I was proven correct later. The other is the best lyric I've ever done. I ran into an old aquaintence in the grocery store parking lot and he related the confrontation he had with his spouse that morning, a complete surprise to me, they were the "perfect couple" in our circle, but even more surprising to him. He spilled his guts right there and I'm not a doctor, but he appeared to be in something like shock. He was just gutted, heading home to he knew not what. I went home, stewed on it overnight, and the next morning was able to capture that shock, gut-wrenching uncertainty, and confidence slaughter in two short verses and a chorus. Never happened before or since, I usually struggle mightily with lyrics.

He didn't get lucky, but you did!

Originally Posted by zuzu

That is why I keep my love songs happy, because it's easy for me; I am still deeply in love and unbelievably happy with my wife of nearly 40 years, the best person I have ever met.

Right on! That helps.

[Bob from Brooklyn]

John Mellencamp has over 500 songs published and he says he's not interesting enough to have 500 songs written about him. Write a love song for somebody else.

[ghostnote]

None of my songs is actually about me. I use my own experiences as an emotional starting point sometimes, but even if the words sound like it’s personal, it really isn’t. Just stories. But 90% of my songs start with the music first - the music sets the mood, the mood inspires the story, and the story could be about anything. If one of my tunes ends up being a love song, it’s probably not because I was consciously thinking about love; it’s more likely that the music made me feel that way. I don’t have a lot of rules about writing, I try to just let it happen.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Bob from Brooklyn

John Mellencamp has over 500 songs published and he says he's not interesting enough to have 500 songs written about him. Write a love song for somebody else.

Same here. I never write about myself. Go to work, come home? Boring. I write about interesting people, usually fictious, sometimes not.

I had a songwriting bandmate who only writes about himself but as far as I can tell hasn't done a single interesting thing in his life. Good therapy, bad music.

[Dave Hicks]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Same here. I never write about myself. Go to work, come home? Boring. I write about interesting people, usually fictious, sometimes not.

I had a songwriting bandmate who only writes about himself but as far as I can tell hasn't done a single interesting thing in his life. Good therapy, bad music.

Richard Thompson has either had an interesting, complicated life, or he has a good imagination. Actually, I suppose it's a good amount of both - but I'd guess that all of the events in his songs didn't happen to him personally.

D.H.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Dave Hicks

Richard Thompson has either had an interesting, complicated life, or he has a good imagination. Actually, I suppose it's a good amount of both - but I'd guess that all of the events in his songs didn't happen to him personally.

D.H.

Love that guy. Wizard on guitar and a born storyteller. I'll never amaze anyone with my guitar prowess, but I like to think I can spin a good yarn.

[Cecil6243]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Younger, middler, and older days. Over and over and over. I'm an equal-opportunity annoyer.

(In fact, "Over and Over and Over" is probably a title waiting for a song.)

Well then you have no excuse for not writing a sad love song.