Impressions of a cheap vintage archtop

[rscott4079]

For a while, I’ve been interested in the concept of making music with very inexpensive vintage instruments. I’d wondered about the cheap old department store archtops that forever keep appearing on ebay in the few hundred dollar range. Of course, I’ve heard nothing but how notoriously bad the sound and quality of these guitars were so I never seriously pursued the idea. Recently though, I’ve noticed a few young musicians playing these on youtube. I was particularly surprised by the sound of Brennen Leigh’s Harmony Buckaroo at the video link below. I really liked the twang of her guitar which I think it gives the music a very authentic sound.

https://youtu.be/w3HhrSNAGyw

So I took the dive and bought one. Mine is a Rex American Eagle, manufactured by Harmony in 1942, model H985. I paid $400 for it. Actually, not in great condition. It had a substantial crack on both the front and back that I filled with Elmer’s Wood glue, and the tuners were rotting way, so I replaced them with a set from Stewmac. At the price point I paid, you can actually by a guitar in much better condition from the same era, but I liked the character of this guitar, with the red, white and blue fret markings and American eagle decals.

It has a solid feel to it, and it’s not light weight. In fact it feels like most guitars. The neck is straight and the action is good. But it’s obviously a cheap guitar. The binding, fret markings and headstock are all painted on. Lots of chipped out spots around the edges. The fretboard has sharper edges than nicer guitars. Obviously not a lot of time spent finishing it at the company. It originally had a tomato red pick guard on it, which I removed because it got in the way playing it. It’s got big V-shaped neck on it. It’s so big that it was difficult to use my Kyser capo with it. Luckily I had an older one with a lose spring that works just fine with it. It had flat wounds on it when I received it, which I replaced with Martin phosphor bronze 12s.

I’ve owned it for about three months now, and have played it almost every day. I have to say, I really like the way it sounds. I don’t mean it’s going to replace anyone’s golden era Martin, but it’s also not the deplorable sounding guitar that I’d always heard these old archtop were. It’s very mid-range. No deep bass or sparkly trebles, but very balanced across the board. It projects very well, both picked and finger style. Playing rhythm, it’s got a Selmer-esque quality to it. The chords make a sort of nice metallic hum which I really like.

So I rate this as a pretty good guitar for the money. I think that 30s, 40s, and 50s archtops are the bargains of the vintage word anyway, selling for much less than their flat top brothers and sisters. Vintage charm, fun to play, and won’t break the bank.

[Robin, Wales]

I'm glad that I saw this thread.

I have never considered buying an archtop guitar - all the clip I have seen of them have been from jazz players. But listening the Brennen Leigh video you posted I was struck by the sound. She plays that song accompaniment in exactly the sparse style I use for my song set. I play a cheap plywood b/s 000 size guitar because it gives me that sparse sound (most expensive flat tops I have tried have been - too much guitar - for me). The sound that Brennen coaxes from her archtop really appeals to me - I could see myself working with that. And, I like the fact that they are still cheap recycled old guitars - I'd fell comfortable with that too. I'm quite handy at set-ups, and I expect that the necks are often bolt on and could be shimmed if required quite easily? And the guitar wouldn't need "looking after" (which is another reason I'm not buying an expensive flat top!!!!).

I'd really like to try something like this out. I do capo a lot for my set - on every fret between the nut and the 5th, so I would want to see how much effect that would have on the tonality (it may kill it too much, or it may work fine?).

Anyway, thanks so much for posting. You have given me food for thought and a totally new direction to consider.

[Slim Zooms]

Originally Posted by rscott4079

For a while, I’ve been interested in the concept of making music with very inexpensive vintage instruments. I’d wondered about the cheap old department store archtops that forever keep appearing on ebay in the few hundred dollar range. Of course, I’ve heard nothing but how notoriously bad the sound and quality of these guitars were so I never seriously pursued the idea. Recently though, I’ve noticed a few young musicians playing these on youtube. I was particularly surprised by the sound of Brennen Leigh’s Harmony Buckaroo at the video link below. I really liked the twang of her guitar which I think it gives the music a very authentic sound.

https://youtu.be/w3HhrSNAGyw

So I took the dive and bought one. Mine is a Rex American Eagle, manufactured by Harmony in 1942, model H985. I paid $400 for it. Actually, not in great condition. It had a substantial crack on both the front and back that I filled with Elmer’s Wood glue, and the tuners were rotting way, so I replaced them with a set from Stewmac. At the price point I paid, you can actually by a guitar in much better condition from the same era, but I liked the character of this guitar, with the red, white and blue fret markings and American eagle decals.

It has a solid feel to it, and it’s not light weight. In fact it feels like most guitars. The neck is straight and the action is good. But it’s obviously a cheap guitar. The binding, fret markings and headstock are all painted on. Lots of chipped out spots around the edges. The fretboard has sharper edges than nicer guitars. Obviously not a lot of time spent finishing it at the company. It originally had a tomato red pick guard on it, which I removed because it got in the way playing it. It’s got big V-shaped neck on it. It’s so big that it was difficult to use my Kyser capo with it. Luckily I had an older one with a lose spring that works just fine with it. It had flat wounds on it when I received it, which I replaced with Martin phosphor bronze 12s.

I’ve owned it for about three months now, and have played it almost every day. I have to say, I really like the way it sounds. I don’t mean it’s going to replace anyone’s golden era Martin, but it’s also not the deplorable sounding guitar that I’d always heard these old archtop were. It’s very mid-range. No deep bass or sparkly trebles, but very balanced across the board. It projects very well, both picked and finger style. Playing rhythm, it’s got a Selmer-esque quality to it. The chords make a sort of nice metallic hum which I really like.

So I rate this as a pretty good guitar for the money. I think that 30s, 40s, and 50s archtops are the bargains of the vintage word anyway, selling for much less than their flat top brothers and sisters. Vintage charm, fun to play, and won’t break the bank.

Thanks for posting this, she’s great I’d never heard of her before.
Love the guitar sound, really superb and so suits the music.
Cheers
Slim

[mcmars]

I love these old archtops and have a few I picked up for cheap on Ebay that were 40's vintage, but most have had major issues that involve removing the back for repairs or neck reset.

I kinda wish I still had the Kalamazoo KG-21 that I traded to Telluride Music a while back, but you can't keep em all. It was beaten up and missing the pickguard, but it have a great set up, vintage boxy tone and nice comfy 00 size. They KG-21's used to go for very little, but in last couple years people are asking way to much IMHO on reverb. Here is my old Kalamazoo and a nice write up that Tom included on the KG-21 :https://telluridemusiccompany.com/pr...%22%20archtops.

Regarding Breenen Leigh, she has a Maybelle Carter/Gillian Welch country thing going on and her songwriting is stellar. She really can draw up some imagery with the metaphors of her nostalgic lyrics. And I like that the very simple tune is not 100% "straight". I think she adds another measure on the 5 chord that works with her phrasing makes the song catch your ear in a way I like, it breaks up the monotony it might be otherwise. I bet she is going to have a very successful career.

[swampyankee]

I've circled overhead on an archtop guitar, but every time I consider it, I'm not sure what I could do with the sound that I couldn't do better with one of my other guitars. I still have the Regal R200 my dad bought me in '67, and although it's not an archtop, it has that boxy sound if I wanted to play it.

But yes, old Kay and Harmony archtops are out there for the picking. I like what Brennen Leigh is doing with hers. Maybe an old department store archtop would be a good alternative to a cheap L-00 copy.

Dangit rscott! Now you got me going!

[B Chas]

Sounds like the OP got a nice score.

Years ago I picked up a 1954 Gibson L-50 off the forum here. In great shape with nice straight and true neck. Lots of fun and has a nice archtop tone. As a 14", student model, not as big sounding as higher end models, also not nearly as expensive.

Gibson made a laminate L-48 & an all wood L-50. Lots of 40s & 50s on reverb, costing 4-5 X as much as the OP's.

[Robin, Wales]

There seem to be a lot of 50s/60s Hofner Congress (German) guitars available on Ebay in the UK. Anyone tried out one of those?

[Slim Zooms]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

There seem to be a lot of 50s/60s Hofner Congress (German) guitars available on Ebay in the UK. Anyone tried out one of those?

Hi there

I’d suggest that a Hofner Senator is the one to get, a semi acoustic if possible.
I once owned a Congress which was lovely condition but not much to write home about.
However, I also picked up a 1957 Hofner Senator which was great. I used it for slide and finger picking and, as it plugged in, made a great stage guitar.
It was a blonde and foolishly I sold it in the mid-90s to fund other guitars. Shoulda kept it,

Cheers

Keep on pickin’

Slim

[brad4d8]

I've got a similar archtop, from the '30s I think. It was made by or for Bacon Banjo Co, possibly by Regal (although they were mainly a reso manufacturer). Its sound is very similar to that in the Brennan Leigh video. I don't play it often, and the tail piece broke while it was in "storage." I recently put on a new one, strung it up and it's a fun little guitar. It could probably use a neck reset, as the bridge needs to be as high as it can go to clear all the frets above 12. FWIW, a lot of those store brands had solid tops, if some were clones of the top of the line Harmony or Kay models, they may have been carved.
Here's mine:

[rscott4079]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I'm glad that I saw this thread.

I have never considered buying an archtop guitar - all the clip I have seen of them have been from jazz players. But listening the Brennen Leigh video you posted I was struck by the sound. She plays that song accompaniment in exactly the sparse style I use for my song set. I play a cheap plywood b/s 000 size guitar because it gives me that sparse sound (most expensive flat tops I have tried have been - too much guitar - for me). The sound that Brennen coaxes from her archtop really appeals to me - I could see myself working with that. And, I like the fact that they are still cheap recycled old guitars - I'd fell comfortable with that too. I'm quite handy at set-ups, and I expect that the necks are often bolt on and could be shimmed if required quite easily? And the guitar wouldn't need "looking after" (which is another reason I'm not buying an expensive flat top!!!!).

I'd really like to try something like this out. I do capo a lot for my set - on every fret between the nut and the 5th, so I would want to see how much effect that would have on the tonality (it may kill it too much, or it may work fine?).

Anyway, thanks so much for posting. You have given me food for thought and a totally new direction to consider.

Robin, interesting that you mention that you like a sparse sound. That's exactly the sound I'm looking for in my own music. I went so far as to buy a four string tenor in an effort to boil my music down to the absolute bare essentials. But it was a bridge to far, I couldn't play on such a tiny fretboard. I wonder if there are other guitarists out there who think less is more. Good luck with your tunes!

[rscott4079]

Originally Posted by brad4d8

I've got a similar archtop, from the '30s I think. It was made by or for Bacon Banjo Co, possibly by Regal (although they were mainly a reso manufacturer). Its sound is very similar to that in the Brennan Leigh video. I don't play it often, and the tail piece broke while it was in "storage." I recently put on a new one, strung it up and it's a fun little guitar. It could probably use a neck reset, as the bridge needs to be as high as it can go to clear all the frets above 12. FWIW, a lot of those store brands had solid tops, if some were clones of the top of the line Harmony or Kay models, they may have been carved.

Wow, that's a beaut. I like the celluloid headstock and the stars on the fretboard. I've heard the same thing about the solid tops. I think it's particularly true of the early 30s and 40s guitars like yours. Very nice old archtop!

[Sage Runner]

Micheal Dave’s doesn’t play a cheap Arch top but he makes good use of a old cheap ply guitar in some of his songs!!! Here’s a link. https://youtu.be/6KwkzIViVnI

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

...I do capo a lot for my set - on every fret between the nut and the 5th, so I would want to see how much effect that would have on the tonality (it may kill it too much, or it may work fine?)...

I've been playing archtop guitars for the last 60 years - owned a pre-trussrod Harmony Broadway, '46 Epiphone Blackstone, '47 script-logo Gibson L-7 (one of the first white-label A-series), and an all-acoustic Godin 5th Avenue - and IME capoing tends to bring out all the qualities diehard flattop players say they can't stand: constricted, strident, plunky, and lacking character - in a word, if you're looking for a quasi-mandolin tonality buy a mandolin, because it's not happening here. Only one that sounds halfway decent is the Godin, a bargain-basement pressed-plywood box in the mold of the old Harmony/Kay/jobber instruments of the mid-20th century - and only owing to the fact that Monsieur Robert designed it from the get-go to have more mid-bass response (and sustain) than the older student archtops; if you like Brennen Leigh's style and you do some fingerpicking as well the Godin would be a good fit - but from what I've seen they're also becoming scarce on the used market since they've been discovered by roots/Americana players...

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I've been playing archtop guitars for the last 60 years - owned a pre-trussrod Harmony Broadway, '46 Epiphone Blackstone, '47 script-logo Gibson L-7 (one of the first white-label A-series), and an all-acoustic Godin 5th Avenue - and IME capoing tends to bring out all the qualities diehard flattop players say they can't stand: constricted, strident, plunky, and lacking character - in a word, if you're looking for a quasi-mandolin tonality buy a mandolin, because it's not happening here. Only one that sounds halfway decent is the Godin, a bargain-basement pressed-plywood box in the mold of the old Harmony/Kay/jobber instruments of the mid-20th century - and only owing to the fact that Monsieur Robert designed it from the get-go to have more mid-bass response (and sustain) than the older student archtops; if you like Brennen Leigh's style and you do some fingerpicking as well the Godin would be a good fit - but from what I've seen they're also becoming scarce on the used market since they've been discovered by roots/Americana players...

Thanks! That's great info.

[Dadzmad]

If you need the mojo of the Chigago style Regal / Harmony / cheaper Kay archtop guitars go for it. But keep in mind these were built to a price point and many that you will come across are no longer good players after 60 years and will take considerable work.

The current Godin 5th Ave/Kingpin are inexpensive and nicely fit this vibe. (the everyman's plywood archtop of the 50s)


I play this one alot unplugged and she sounds great through a tube amp.