To Tab, or not to Tab- That is the question

[vindibona1]

I came across this video and it all made perfect sense to me. But then again I was 7 when I began to learn to read music and when I started guitar Tab didn't exist. What say ye?

[Howard Emerson]

Actually tablature has been around since the 15th Century, but you’re very young looking:-)
HE

[sid45]

the video was unwatchable for me after 15 seconds but I say use any method you can to learn, not everyone NEEDS to read music to enjoy an instrument- look how many car owners cant drive !

[TBman]

This has been discussed at length in the past and I guess we're due for another round.

For me, notation, by itself, doesn't give enough clues to the finger style player, to immediately know what position to play the notes unless it indicates it above the notation. Tab by itself is difficult to read when they try to mix timing and location all at once. The perfect world for me is full notation on top and tab without timing indicators below.

I'm not a musician. I would rather spend my time learning to play the tune than figure out the optimum playing position on my own. There are times when I do optimize a tab for myself, but it usually is only minor tweaks.

In full disclosure I had piano lessons as a very young child and learned to read rudimentary music then and for a few years in grade school music class also taught some reading.

[bluesfreek]

Tablature has been used for lute music for hundreds of years.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature

[s2y]

Write your own music. Then you don't need to worry about the tab vs. notation debate.

[PHJim]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

I came across this video and it all made perfect sense to me. But then again I was 7 when I began to learn to read music and when I started guitar Tab didn't exist. What say ye?

You must be really old vindibona1. My first exposure to Tab was in Sing Out! magazine in 1961. Each Sing Out! had one or more columns called "Teach In" where players like Pete Seeger, Happy Traum, Bob Baxter, Harry Taussig. . . would teach folk-style guitar, banjo, mandolin, dulcimer. . .to the folkies who bought the magazine. Most of them used the tablature that had been revived from the old lute music by Pete Seeger in his 1948 book How To Play The Five String Banjo. He also co-wrote The Folksinger's Guitar Guide Pete is the one responsible for the style of tablature we use today. He also was the one who coined the terms "hammer on" and "pull off".
If not for Pete, we still might be saying "left hand pizzicato" instead of "pull off".

[Pitar]

The score gives enough information if written by a capable person. Tell a classically trained person who is playing those pieces that his scores are inadequate and he'll look at you like you have 6 eyes.

Tab has been the crutch people lean on, and to an extent I'll throw the non-classical scored pieces in as well, when they have zero ear. IOW, they really on their eyes to both select guitars and play music, and have not given their ears the emphasis they need. The ears guide the hands when no tab or score is available, or when scoring music.

To argue score against tab without addressing the essential aural component is a debate where all are unwittingly admitting they do not have a developed ear. To that I say good luck learning the guitar because without it no learning takes place.

[tadol]

I say - whatever helps you play music is good -

But beyond that - each style has its place. I remember many, many years ago, figuring out “Fire and Rain” from tab, and how happy I was after working thru the finger positions for days, finally pulling it all together and pretending I could play like James Taylor. I still like tab for learning little signature riffs, or similar. But I am not a fingerstyle player - so for me, I need the words and chords, a little info on the arrangement, and thats about it. A bit of tab might help, but what I really need is specific notes about how we play it all together, who comes in where, who sings which harmony, is someone capo’d up, etc. If we pull a song out that we haven’t played for a few months, its great to kinda read it all in and remember how it works, where I have to pay extra attention. Now, I know all that would be in a full score, but I’m not good at reading music (extremely slow) and I want everything I need to know on one page. Doing a song with a 4 part harmony singing group, our scores would be 12+ pages long for a song I had arranged for guitar on one page.

I think anyone playing music should make an effort to learn how to read music, but if tab gets you to play, then do it!

[JBCROTTY]

This debate always starts to sound like debates about wine. You have the wine experts sneering at the people at Trader Joe's chugging 2 buck chuck. My point is...who cares how you got playing, so long as you are playing and enjoying it.

The reality is that without TAB, a vast majority of people who play guitar would not play (myself included), or would have struggled to the extent that only the hardiest or most determined would have stuck with it. Pitar's point of the ear needing to be trained is correct, but training your ear to hear the minute characteristics of music to inform your playing takes a very long time, even for musically talented folks. The fact is people need to learn to play while their ears figure things out. TAB let's them win early and often.

I took music lessons as a kid for years playing piano, guitar and saxophone. Years spent trying to learn to read traditional music signature and apply it to playing whatever instrument was in my hand. It was frustrating and difficult for me - not because I could not grab the concepts, but because progress was slow and I did not feel like I was getting better or understanding what I was doing. It is the primary reason I quit (that, and my teacher would not let me play Van Halen or REM tunes - for what reason I will never understand). Spending a month trying to crank out "Sloop John B" is not a recipe for fun or success.

TAB allowed me to pick the guitar back up as an adult and make faster progress and enjoy the journey. I was able to get reasonably proficient and play a large amount of songs quickly. I'm no Eddie Van Halen, but I can play songs and determine over time when things need to be adjusted. The point is, my ears are developing, but while they do I need to feel good and have fun and that is what TAB allows people to do. I can study music theory on the side to help me fill in gaps while I hammer away at REM's greatest hits.

The fact is I will never have to learn to read music (beyond what I can already read) to play guitar and get better. Could I get into Berkeley School of Music or Julliard? No. However, a vast majority of hobby guitar players out there don't read music either, and some of them are really good players. It is my understanding that many professional musicians don't read music either. TAB allows people to pick up the instrument and play songs quickly, and that is the number 1 most important objective to keep them moving in the journey.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by PHJim

You must be really old vindibona1. My first exposure to Tab was in Sing Out! magazine in 1961. Each Sing Out! had one or more columns called "Teach In" where players like Pete Seeger, Happy Traum, Bob Baxter, Harry Taussig. . . would teach folk-style guitar, banjo, mandolin, dulcimer. . .to the folkies who bought the magazine. Most of them used the tablature that had been revived from the old lute music by Pete Seeger in his 1948 book How To Play The Five String Banjo. He also co-wrote The Folksinger's Guitar Guide Pete is the one responsible for the style of tablature we use today. He also was the one who coined the terms "hammer on" and "pull off".
If not for Pete, we still might be saying "left hand pizzicato" instead of "pull off".

Interesting stuff!
Here in the benighted UK, I don't recall seeing tab until maybe the 70s at the earliest. As I remember, in the mid 1960s, only two books existed on how to play guitar. Two. Notation in both.
I learned from notation right from the beginning. I didn't find it hard at all, but I'm sure I'd have appreciated tab when learning fingerstyle tunes.
(Then again, classical guitar notation manages to include all the positional and fingering indications one needs, without resorting to tab.)

Adam Neely is a clever guy, knows his stuff, but I have real problems with his style and delivery - I find his videos very hard to watch.

I certainly have little patience with those who can't get to grips with notation (come on guys! I learned it easily aged 11), but I also believe tab has its place. The music I give my students usually has both staff notation and tab, to get the best of both worlds.

One instrument where I think tab makes more sense than notation is the banjo - which ties in with your Pete Seeger facts. Most fingerstyle banjo music is easier to understand from tab than from notation (at least from my guitar player's perspective), largely because of that high G 5th string. This is because you're rarely playing melodies (which is where notation wins by showing the melodic shape), more often playing arpeggiated accompaniments. It's really critical exactly where (on which strings and frets) you play the patterns, which is not always the case with guitar music.

Where I really do value tab for guitar is in alternative tunings such as DADGAD. My notation skills relate to EADGBE! I can translate them to DADGAD with a little thought, but tab sure helps. Again, it's because the exact fingering is important, and the freedom notation gives you to choose your position is not relevant.

[rick-slo]

A music score for piano is in a way like tab is for guitar. Nothing wrong using tab. Use whatever is available to help
pick up on how to play a piece of music.

Regarding not needing to write down (tab, score, some sort of cheat sheet, etc.) things you compose yourself, that
depends. I often like to keep a tab and score of things I write. Actually making notations as I go along many times
makes for a better end product.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

A music score for piano is in a way like tab is for guitar.

I know what you mean. Piano and staff notation are kind of made for each other.
But I still prefer notation as a visual analogue of how the music will sound. Tab doesn't give you that.

And of course, notation is the same for every instrument, so it's extremely useful for learning - because you can read music written for any other instrument, or for voice. It's how I managed to teach myself, both to play and to compose. If I'd only had tab back then, I think I'd have felt lost in a fog of incomprehension. I'd have been (literally!) a musical illiterate.

But I agree with you: nothing wrong with tab, and one should use any and every method to learn what one needs to.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by bluesfreek

Tablature has been used for lute music for hundreds of years.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature

Maybe for the lute. But it's only been around for since (having been corrected) since the 60's- and couldn't have been very popular. I started taking lessons in '65 and took them weekly from a few different guys until trumpet became my main instrument in '69 and not once was tab even mentioned.

I can see how tab might be essential for some of us who use alternate tunings in addition to standard tuning and would be total brain-twisted to try to learn the fingerboard.

I am in the same camp as Barry, liking to have standard notation on the top staff of a system and tab on the bottom when it comes to fingerstyle. It can be helpful when learning a complex fingerstyle piece, particuarly in DADGAD or open G. As a part-time nouveau bass player tab just confuses me visually. Bass doesn't have the same complexities as fingerstyle guitar...

... As an example, next week I'm supposed to perform the bassoon part (on bass guitar) with a bass/vocal duet. There is no way on earth that tab would help me- even though I have two to three choices of fingerings all over the neck.

Sure there are guys who do great using Tab. Heck there are dudes who set the world on fire playing by ear. Yeah, I think there is a place for Tab... but for me it is, and always will be an adjunct and aid to standard notation. JMO

[PHJim]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Interesting stuff!
Here in the benighted UK, I don't recall seeing tab until maybe the 70s at the earliest. As I remember, in the mid 1960s, only two books existed on how to play guitar. Two. Notation in both.
I learned from notation right from the beginning. I didn't find it hard at all, but I'm sure I'd have appreciated tab when learning fingerstyle tunes.
(Then again, classical guitar notation manages to include all the positional and fingering indications one needs, without resorting to tab.)

Adam Neely is a clever guy, knows his stuff, but I have real problems with his style and delivery - I find his videos very hard to watch.

I certainly have little patience with those who can't get to grips with notation (come on guys! I learned it easily aged 11), but I also believe tab has its place. The music I give my students usually has both staff notation and tab, to get the best of both worlds.

One instrument where I think tab makes more sense than notation is the banjo - which ties in with your Pete Seeger facts. Most fingerstyle banjo music is easier to understand from tab than from notation (at least from my guitar player's perspective), largely because of that high G 5th string. This is because you're rarely playing melodies (which is where notation wins by showing the melodic shape), more often playing arpeggiated accompaniments. It's really critical exactly where (on which strings and frets) you play the patterns, which is not always the case with guitar music.

Where I really do value tab for guitar is in alternative tunings such as DADGAD. My notation skills relate to EADGBE! I can translate them to DADGAD with a little thought, but tab sure helps. Again, it's because the exact fingering is important, and the freedom notation gives you to choose your position is not relevant.

You're right about tablature being better for banjo. While Scruggs style players usualy stick to gDGBD or f#DF#AD, old timey players use many different tunings. I try to stick to four main tunings, some differing only by one string, but some players for whom the banjo is their primary instrument use many more. This makes standard notation awkward.
Also, as you mentioned, that little thumb string makes it questionable where to best notate the G (or whatever the string is tuned to).

A common way of playing fiddle tunes on the banjo uses what's called "Melodic Style". In open G tuning, a G major scale would be played:
_____________0_____4_____
_______0________5________
__0_______5______________
_____7___________________
______________________0__

Dropping to a lower string for a higher note can become confusing when translating from standard notation. Whole tunes are played in this style, never hitting two eighth notes in a row with the same finger or on the same string.

Realistically, Standard Notation and Tablature are just ways of communicating music to other musicians. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. I'm glad I read both.
The only times I use it with my fellow musicians is when it's important that they play the exact notes, like in a harmony part where improvising would F everything up. In this case, depending on the musician, I would give them a Standard Notation copy of their part, a Tablature copy of their part, or a sound file of their part.