Your thoughts on carbon fiber?

[Skarsaune]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Nah, Carbon fiber is very different from plastic in it's chemical composition and use in manufacturing.

CF is used in applications where both strength and rigidity are desired. I understand the "epoxy" factor, but if we speak truly of the material it is not plastic- but you sure can mold it like plastic!

Oh, I’m well aware of what carbon fiber is and its uses. After 30 years in engineering I’ve learned a little along the way.

Feels like plastic to me, though. Keep it in bike frames where it belongs, lol.

OP asked for our thoughts.

[Skarsaune]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

I don’t know which brands/models you’ve tried or how long ago, but given the range, price points and advancements of what’s now available including those not in stores (unfortunately), you seem to be assuming that CF/composite guitars are merely plastic toys only useful for inclement situations. Not so. There are many that rival really good wood guitars. They have a place as another feel, aesthetic and flavor in the tonal palette.

Fair point. It was 7 years or more ago.

Their usefulness in campfire, inclement weather, and as a canoe paddle were all highlighted by prior posters. :-)

Steep hill for the manufacturers to climb with folks like myself, though. I’m a firm believer in trying guitars before you buy them. Hard to do if examples aren’t out there to be tried.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Skarsaune

Fair point. It was 7 years or more ago.

Their usefulness in campfire, inclement weather, and as a canoe paddle were all highlighted by prior posters. :-)

Steep hill for the manufacturers to climb with folks like myself, though. I’m a firm believer in trying guitars before you buy them. Hard to do if examples aren’t out there to be tried.

CF/composite builders are akin to boutique wood guitar builders where it can be tough to try before buying...often a leap of faith. The build processes are very different, but are still marvels of design and engineering. Both are luthiers. When I first ordered a CA Cargo back in ‘08, I was intrigued. I loved it from the get-go, still own it and will never part with it. It’s not the best sounding among my guitars, but it certainly has its place...and that’s the key. It was the gateway composite guitar for me to take that chance again with others and for the most part it has been quite gratifying. They do hold their cost very well, in fact better than wood. They are not for everyone and I’m not trying to change your mind. I just encourage that they are not plastic toys, rather comparable to wood in their own right enjoyed by many who appreciate a broad range of tones.

[boneuphtoner]

Originally Posted by jklotz

This has been very interesting. Thanks to the mods that allowed this post to stay here and not go to the CF section. It would have gone differently there. I appreciate everybody's honest opinions.

I should have said this in my first post, but I have already put down a deposit for an Emerald X-20. I've never played a CF guitar. Crazy, huh? But I didn't mention it because I thought it might bias some of the opinions. I'm ordering one for the obvious environmental factors, but also because of the way it sits on your leg seated. I cross my legs when playing, right over left, to put the guitar into the position I'm most comfortable playing, leaning back against my rib cage. Problem is my leg falls asleep after a while, and I play for at least several hours a day. Having a guitar that is angled back and to the right with your feet flat on the floor seems like a really cool idea. That may seem silly to some of you, but I wanted to give it a shot.

Good for you! After I fell in love with my RainSong Concert WS model and then sold off a couple of things to pay for it and then another CF guitar that is on order and I could have afforded to buy an Emerald. The glamour shots that people are posting in the Carbon Fiber section on this forum are stunning - and unlike the offset sound holes I see from RainSong, McPherson, and others, nobody seems to have nailed the aesthetic to my eye compared to Emerald. If I didn't have such unusual tonal expectations as a result of my playing of classical fingerstyle on steel string, I would have probably already ordered one. The recordings I've heard on these sound amazing. I'm thinking that one of these may be my retirement gift to myself in a few years - provided some kind soul can let me play their Emerald for just a few minutes.

Please keep us posted!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Skarsaune

Busking with a $250 Yamaha makes more sense to me than a $2500 CF guitar.

If something catastrophic happens - go get another one.

Hi Scar-etc

Maybe so. There are cheaper than $250 guitars which are very playable. The musician's friend RA-100-D (used to cost $80-100 USD) came with decent action (with a touch of truss rod adjustment). I'm sure they have an equivalent model still.

I have handled dozens of these as student guitars for group classes.

So it's certainly a consideration.

[gfa]

I have nice wood guitars (Martin, Gibson, Rec King, Silvertone) and a Rainsong. I love them all. The Rainsong is great for traveling, camping, leaving out on the stand, and is a great guitar in its own right. Comfy and easy to play, sounds good, looks good. Short story: I was once playing with a small group, including a blind guitarist who I had not met before. During a lull he asked me what was the great sounding guitar I was playing? Yep, the Rainsong.

[seannx]

I have both. The only three acoustics out on stands that I play now are my Martin 00-18, RainSong, and Emerald X20. My youngest son has my Martin SW00-DB and Guild 12 string as his main recording acoustics. All my other wooden guitars are cased, and will be sold at some point.

One thing I discovered, is that expecting a carbon fiber guitar to sound like one made from wood can be disappointing at first. When I demoed my RainSong, it just sounded off. Thankfully I recorded it on my phone, along with singing, and listening to it later really liked the quality of sound. My son liked it too, and I love to play it. The Emerald is nice, too, very comfortable body and full sound, but I’m ordering a custom one with a shorter scale length. I just don’t enjoy playing a 25 1/2” scale neck as much.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

The Emerald Kestrel Archtop...all CF with or without a woody veneer of your choice, this one in coco...

Thanks, Tom - I knew about this one, not my cuppa tea...

[jdinco]

I think for most of us that own CF guitars, it's CF and Wood, not either or. At least it is for me. I love my wood guitars and my Sable. They all sound different.

[Methos1979]

I have owned and played many carbon fiber guitars. In fact, just a few years back for a short time I only nothing but carbon fiber guitars. They are great. It's wonderful to not have to worry about anything you usually worry about with wood guitars. I ended up doing a 180 and went back to all wood because I couldn't get a great amplified tone that I needed for gigging and ended up selling three carbon fiber guitars and buying three Cole Clark guitars. I still have two of the CC. I'm quite sure that one day I'll own a carbon fiber guitar again. Well, 75% sure. I'm a big fan of the Emeralds with their ability to customize and extremely attractive woody tops. But I've also owned Rainsong and Journey CF guitars.

[bsman]

As Yoda would say: "Strong is the confirmation bias here."

I have (currently) three wood and two CF guitars. Love them all. IMO, there is as much variability between one wood guitar and another of the same model, wood, and manufacture as there is between wood guitars and CF guitars of the same general configuration.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by Skarsaune

The wood used is part of the attraction and attachment to guitars for me. A piece of plastic? No thanks.

Carbon fiber is like plastic in the same way that veggie burgers are like prime rib. Not even close to the same thing..... You can make the same argument that an expensive five-figure luthier built double-top is technically plywood, but the analogy fails there too. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by Skarsaune

Oh, I’m well aware of what carbon fiber is and its uses. After 30 years in engineering I’ve learned a little along the way.

Feels like plastic to me, though. Keep it in bike frames where it belongs, lol.

OP asked for our thoughts.

I really don’t focus on the “feel’. I’m more about the tone.

The tone bears no relationship to plastic.

The first CF guitar made me make the exact same comments about it. The last one I played, I own, and it’s a good as any wooden guitar I’ve ever played.

[RP]

Originally Posted by jklotz

This has been very interesting. Thanks to the mods that allowed this post to stay here and not go to the CF section. It would have gone differently there...

For one thing, you'd never get posts like these...

Originally Posted by Keith G50

It’s a great material for a lot of things, just not guitars. Obviously just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by Skarsaune

My thoughts?

I'm not interested in CF guitars, so I don't seek them out.
I've played one or two in shops over the years and was not impressed.
I keep a wood guitar out on a hanger next to my chair in the living room, and it hasn't exploded yet. I've played my wood guitars in cold and/or wet environments, none of them exploded either.

The wood used is part of the attraction and attachment to guitars for me. A piece of plastic? No thanks.

[DustyD]

I can't pretend I'm not crazy intrigued by carbon fiber guitars. I think I've watched every available youtube video on the Emerald X-20 but I'm scared to make the plunge...I love the idea of durability and really just a completely different colored sound instead of the mind numbing mahogany vs rosewood discussions haha. It's essentially just a completely different tonal palate

OP I'd love to hear your thoughts when it arrives. I think it's important to just consider it a different flavor instead of comparing it to your wood guitars. It's like having a classical, reso, banjo, wood dread, and carbon fiber