New here, older learner, guitar advice

[Buddy21]

I am a little older in my 50's but I keep telling myself I am still in my 30's. lol
I have been learning for about 6 months now. I currently have a Yamaha FG830. I have been offered a 2015 Taylor 412 ce for a very reasonable price, about $500 below market value.

According to the individual selling he says... "I bought it new for $1700 plus customization. It is a 2015 Taylor 412 CE. It has a custom neck width of 1 11/16. It is an absolutely perfect condition with no scratches or marks whatsoever. Only played a few times and always protected."

For those who have more knowledge than me should I consider buying this Taylor? Any advice is much appreciated.

I didn't know if I could mention the price on this forum. If it is listed on Ebay he would list it for $1500. I can get it for $1000. If it helps my style of playing would be country to praise and worship songs.

[Mark Stone]

Originally Posted by Buddy21

I am a little older in my 50's but I keep telling myself I am still in my 30's. lol
I have been learning for about 6 months now. I currently have a Yamaha FG830. I have been offered a 2015 Taylor 412 ce for a very reasonable price, about $500 below market value.

According to the individual selling he says... "I bought it new for $1700 plus customization. It is a 2015 Taylor 412 CE. It has a custom neck width of 1 11/16. It is an absolutely perfect condition with no scratches or marks whatsoever. Only played a few times and always protected."

For those who have more knowledge than me should I consider buying this Taylor? Any advice is much appreciated.

Hi Buddy, first - - - Welcome to AGF!

Of course you should consider the 412ce. It is an outstanding instrument. However, if at all possible, I would suggest playing the instrument first to see if it fits you. If you're unable to play it, then research the seller thoroughly - are there return policies in place? If it's Ebay, what does his or her feedback say? You probably know the drill.

As far as the Taylor model itself, no worries - it's a great guitar.

Again, welcome to the AGF!

[folkmusikfan]

Buying a used guitar is a skill in itself. My first thought is to wait until you get more experience. See where your tastes and playing style lead you. You may find you want a smaller body or a wider nut. If you really want to buy it, either have a good luthier check it first, or have a knowledgeable friend check it out. There are so many things to look for on a used guitar. I would also email the serial number to the manufacturer and see what history they have on it. Welcome to the guitar world. Enjoy the journey.

[Buddy21]

Thanks! I have emailed Taylor the serial number for any history or information. I won't be able to play the guitar as the seller is 2000 miles from me.

I do agree with the advice regarding waiting until I get more experience so that I will know what I really want.

I do know Taylor's are great guitars and I would hate to miss out on a really good deal but I would hate to have buyers remorse too.

[Godfather]

Welcome to the AGF Buddy! You will find the folks here very friendly and knowledgable.

As for the Taylor 412ce. It is a great guitar.
The X12 (GC small body) and 1-11/16" nut are both specifics that may be "perfect" for you. It took me quite a few years and several guitars to find my fit.

If you can get your hands on a Taylor X12 bodied guitar to demo, that will be the best way to know how the body fits. You will be hard pressed to find a X12 with a 1-11/16 nut since that was special ordered.
If not, does the seller have a return policy? The last thing you would want is having a guitar you are not comfortable playing. Don't ask me how I know.

Good luck in your decision. Please keep us posted, and again, WELCOME!

[lowrider]

How is this guitar being offered, live in person or over the internet? I won't by anything privately over the internet. Live, face to face only for me. Most people are honest, except when they want to sell something.

Secondly, are you sure that that guitar is $500 below market? The market for a Taylor with a 1 11/16 nut would be pretty low. $500 below that would be almost give-away price.

Third, a lot of us who used to play Yamaha's with 1 11/16 nut width have found that we like 1 3/4 much better. Martin has moved almost completely to 1 3/4. Make sure which you like better before moving to a more expensive guitar.

Forth, shopping for guitars, out in the stores is a lot of fun. Buying blind over the internet is like a blind date. She might be the girl of your dreams, or she might be;

[Acousticado]

Just curious...The seller says he bought the guitar new in 2015 for $1,700 plus customization. So, was a standard 412ce $1,700 back then? Seems low to me. I’d also be curious to know how much the customization cost and the total. If it’s a custom, he should have the build sheet. I’d ask for a copy of it.

[BreedloveRDMH]

Hi, first I's say, get the Taylor. Nice guitar that you should be able to grow in to over the years.
Second, I'll say welcome. I too started when I was about 50 or so. I'm 67 now and I'm still playing and still learing.
At first I was ( or thought I was ), so bad that I'd only play when the house was empty.
Now 17 years later, I'm teaching my neighbor how to play and I'm actually asked to bring my guitar when I come over to people's homes to play some.

Keep playing, have fun

[KevinH]

Yes, welcome to the AGF!

First, the 412 is a great guitar. I find the GC size is a comfortable fit. And, if I understand the price correctly, it sounds like a good deal. My local Craigslist had a 2015 412ce in great condition listed last spring for $1500 and it sold quickly. Reverb is showing a 2015 412ce in mint condition for $2200, but that seems quite high.

I wonder why the price is $500 below market. It could be, as mentioned above, due the 1-11/16" nut. Some find that to be a good thing. Others not so much. So be sure you like that nut width. It's surprising how much of a difference 1/16" can make. Also, you might check to see if the customization involved a different string spacing at the bridge.

It could also be that there is a problem with the guitar. You said it had been protected. Does that mean protected from bumps/scratches? Protected from humidity extremes? When buying used there are a lot of questions you should ask. Is the neck straight? Any warping in the top? Does it play cleanly at all frets? What is the current action at the 12th fret and how much bridge is left? Etc. These are all things you can check in person. If the guitar is only 6 yrs old and has been well-cared for (especially kept away from extreme of humidity and temperature), there may not be any issues. But unless you get some really good pictures, or trust the seller enough to give you honest answers, you won't really know.

A year or two ago, I bought a Martin 00-18V on Craigslist listed for roughly $500 below the current market value. It was described as mint condition, and the pictures looked good. Fortunately, it was a local seller, so I could go see it. Turned out the bridge was starting to lift, and there was some warping in the top, probably due to humidity. I went ahead with the purchase - the bridge fix was < $100 and proper humidification pretty much cured the top. My point is I never would have seen those potential issues from pictures or the description.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Buddy21

I have been learning for about 6 months now. I currently have a Yamaha FG830. I have been offered a 2015 Taylor 412 ce for a very reasonable price, about $500 below market value.

Welcome.

My first good steel string was a Taylor 514, and Taylor playability makes them a good guitar to learn on.

However, since you're fairly new at guitar, but already have an idea of what might suit you, I wouldn't box myself in by jumping at this deal. Much better to play a number of guitars and get a feel for what you like best. Plus this current deal doesn't seem to have much flexibility in the transaction.

Yeah -- tough to get out and sample the wares these days, but I'd be patient and wait a while.

[Buddy21]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Yes, welcome to the AGF!

First, the 412 is a great guitar. I find the GC size is a comfortable fit. And, if I understand the price correctly, it sounds like a good deal. My local Craigslist had a 2015 412ce in great condition listed last spring for $1500 and it sold quickly. Reverb is showing a 2015 412ce in mint condition for $2200, but that seems quite high.

I wonder why the price is $500 below market. It could be, as mentioned above, due the 1-11/16" nut. Some find that to be a good thing. Others not so much. So be sure you like that nut width. It's surprising how much of a difference 1/16" can make. Also, you might check to see if the customization involved a different string spacing at the bridge.

It could also be that there is a problem with the guitar. You said it had been protected. Does that mean protected from bumps/scratches? Protected from humidity extremes? When buying used there are a lot of questions you should ask. Is the neck straight? Any warping in the top? Does it play cleanly at all frets? What is the current action at the 12th fret and how much bridge is left? Etc. These are all things you can check in person. If the guitar is only 6 yrs old and has been well-cared for (especially kept away from extreme of humidity and temperature), there may not be any issues. But unless you get some really good pictures, or trust the seller enough to give you honest answers, you won't really know.

A year or two ago, I bought a Martin 00-18V on Craigslist listed for roughly $500 below the current market value. It was described as mint condition, and the pictures looked good. Fortunately, it was a local seller, so I could go see it. Turned out the bridge was starting to lift, and there was some warping in the top, probably due to humidity. I went ahead with the purchase - the bridge fix was < $100 and proper humidification pretty much cured the top. My point is I never would have seen those potential issues from pictures or the description.

I didn't know if I could mention the price here. He says he would list it on Ebay for $1500. I can get it for $1000. It also includes the hard case.

[emtsteve]

I recently bought an Academy 12 and the playability is superb. If the 412 you are looking at is similar then it will be an excellent guitar to grow your skills on. What is the return policy?

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by Buddy21

I didn't know if I could mention the price here. He says he would list it on Ebay for $1500. I can get it for $1000. It also includes the hard case.

That makes the decision harder Really good price IMO. If it is problem free, I would think you'd be able to sell it easily if it turned out you didn't like it. If it were me, I'd make a list of questions to ask the seller. If you're not familiar with the right questions, Google "things to look at when buying a used guitar". Then maybe try a video chat. You could ask him to play all the frets and listen for buzz. Might be able to see the action and how much bridge is left. That all assumes the seller is knowledgeable enough to measure things, and has a few of the necessary tools. If the seller isn't willing to try, I'd move on. I'm assuming the seller is an individual, not a guitar shop.

[spock]

How is this guitar being offered, live in person or over the internet? I won't by anything privately over the internet. Live, face to face only for me. Most people are honest, except when they want to sell something.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but having been through 75+ vintage and newer guitars by virtue of being a charter member of CARC (catch and release club) and still owning 15 as we speak, only once have I ever purchased a guitar in a face to face transaction. Guitar choices in my area are limited, and I never wanted to be forced to settle for what was available locally if what I really desired was in another part of the country. Having said that, one must obviously exercise due diligence in looking carefully before leaping, which may include among things an escrow transaction if the seller's reputation cannot be comfortably verified, or, the guitar is not being offered through a listing agent or site with a return or money back guarantee.

As for the guitar itself, I have two Taylors and love them, and only wish when I initially started playing and learning at the age of 47 that I had forked over the additional capital and bought one of the Taylors first instead of laboring along with a sub par guitar, my warped thinking being that I needed to be a better player before I 'deserved' a nicer guitar. Learning on a nicer, easier playing guitar is sooo much easier. Plus, if you buy quality at a fair market price, you'll not get taken to the cleaners if you decide to forego playing altogether and sell it down the road.

[Br1ck]

I happen to know a few people who have bought great deal guitars because of the price and regretted it, and no one who paid over market on a guitar they loved who regretted it.

That said, it is sweet to move up to an all solid US built guitar, and at your experience level, I look at it as a learning experience. You WILL find out what kind of neck you like. You WILL find out what size you like, what tone you like, and what scale length you like.

Taylors are not my thing, but they have many fans. Had I bought one, it would have taught me many things. My next purchase would have been more informed, shaped by my experience with the Taylor. I recently went through this process with mandolins. Upgraded from my import to a luthier built instrument which taught me a ton about quality difference, but was not the voicing I ended up wanting. I don't view it as a mistake. It was valuable. I would only buy a guitar priced as a deal if it were a friend. I've sold a guitar or two to friends who could not pay market value and I've never regretted it. From a stranger, well I've found that generally life doesn't work like that.