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  #16  
Old 06-23-2022, 11:55 AM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Jim raises a good question (if daisy chain can split the images or only mirror) I don't know ? But the only reason to have two monitors is to be able to have different things on each of them.

But with the Mac Studio I believe you would not have to have a splitter because (If I am remembering correctly ) it can send from both its HDMI and one of it's TB3 - USB -C connections ( I believe the $399 ASUS has both those types of connections) ..So I am thinking you could go with one now and one later
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Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
I'd worry that daisy chain means mirror not different, but I don't know.

Yup, you can drive a high-res monitor off one of USB C ports. And yes, you can buy one now and one later, and no they don't have to match. In my meet the budget situation with my Mac Mini it was buy one new and use one existing that I had. Similarly, if you decide you need more mounting/positioning flexibility later you can use the VESA mount standard to give you that later.

I hadn't thought about video and 4K being very good to have. Makes sense, though for what I do I just work at older 1080 (HD) tops for my videos.

Color accuracy and short term, I thought of another poor-mans mitigation. Do I remember correctly, you have an older iMac. Are you happy with it's color accuracy? Just thinking, but you maybe remote computer connect to the new Studio running Photoshop there from the old iMac. I think you'd get the old iMacs color and for the most part the new Studio's speed. There'd be some additional latency, but for a static picture it'd likely be tolerable. Not saying to sacrifice color accuracy on your new monitor though.

Another thing that occurs to me if you own a iPhone (or better yet an iPad) and plan to use Logic. I believe Apple offers a remote app for Logic to run on their phones and tablets. Might be cool for your watch the mixer or levels needs while recording. Again, your session would be running on your new Studio, the Logic Remote app just lets you put up a remote windows to selected parts of the interface of Logic on the iPad or phone.
Ahh....This new world of computer tech offers us bedroom musicians a chance to have a high quality studio at a mere fraction of the price that it would have cost us in the 80's. However...definitive answers in the old analog world were so much easier to get. How everything interfaces in the digital world? Not always a definitive answer.

I called into to apple and asked to speak to a specialist on my new purchase before I ordered. As when you order you can have Logic Pro installed for an additional $199. I only wished to know one question: Could I transfer my Old 10.1.1 Logic Pro X to the new computer and pay to have it upgraded? I took me over 20 minutes on the phone, and had to be transferred Four times before someone could answer that question! Point being that even apple does not always know the answers to the questions asked without a lot of research. I found the same thing in the apple store...I got varied answers to other questions I had.

Even in what this "Daisy Chain" functionality truly is..there are conflicting reports.
One source claims this:

"Desktop Mirroring or Extend

When connected to an external display, Mac and Windows computers have two different display modes: Mirror and Extend. In Mirror Mode the computer monitor duplicates the monitor on the external display so that you see the same picture on both the desktop and projector. In Extend Mode the external display is treated as a separate screen so that you can have a different windows open on the projector and desktop. It is easy to switch between the two settings.
MAC – Change External Display Mode

To turn on (or off) Desktop Mirror click the small icon of a monitor on the upper right side of the menu bar and select Turn On Mirroring"

For right now, I just plan to get a 12 foot HDMI cable and move the monitor in front of me.

However, silly me...I forgot all about the power cable. So I will need an extension power cable as well. Which, now starts to get a little messy with that extra cord. Not quite as simple of a move.

And IPAD remote for the metering is sounding pretty good. It is light weight, battery operated...and If I indeed can zoom in on just The meter levels( Three channels at the most at one time) then I would be set.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-2022, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
I called into to apple and asked to speak to a specialist on my new purchase before I ordered. As when you order you can have Logic Pro installed for an additional $199. I only wished to know one question: Could I transfer my Old 10.1.1 Logic Pro X to the new computer and pay to have it upgraded? I took me over 20 minutes on the phone, and had to be transferred Four times before someone could answer that question! Point being that even apple does not always know the answers to the questions asked without a lot of research. I found the same thing in the apple store...I got varied answers to other questions I had.
I don't use logic but thought that (.) dot releases (like 10.1.1 to 10.7.4) were free in Logic ? That only new version numbers are paid upgrades like 8 to 10 etc. ??
Quote:
Even in what this "Daisy Chain" functionality truly is..there are conflicting reports.
One source claims this:

"Desktop Mirroring or Extend

When connected to an external display, Mac and Windows computers have two different display modes: Mirror and Extend. In Mirror Mode the computer monitor duplicates the monitor on the external display so that you see the same picture on both the desktop and projector. In Extend Mode the external display is treated as a separate screen so that you can have a different windows open on the projector and desktop. It is easy to switch between the two settings.
MAC – Change External Display Mode

To turn on (or off) Desktop Mirror click the small icon of a monitor on the upper right side of the menu bar and select Turn On Mirroring"E]
Yes setting up extended is very easy in Mac OS. And you select which display is primary and show the dock... But the above says nothing about wether the displays are connected with two cables running from the Mac (one to each display ) OR are daisy chained (Mac to one display and from that display to another display) BUT as I mentioned I don't think it matters on the Studio machine (unless you think you will use up all 4 TB/USB-C Ports and will only have the one HDMI for video output ?) BTW I believe you have to use the HDMI port for 4K

Quote:
For right now, I just plan to get a 12 foot HDMI cable and move the monitor in front of me.
So the Studio will be 12 ft from the display ?
Why is that ? Also just a side note given you are a live alone do you have any way to get your system out of the corner ? That is the least desirable place for monitoring with loudspeakers Trust me I do it in my bedroom and it is not a great situation ..
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2022, 05:24 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
So the Studio will be 12 ft from the display ?
Why is that ? Also just a side note given you are a live alone do you have any way to get your system out of the corner ? That is the least desirable place for monitoring with loudspeakers Trust me I do it in my bedroom and it is not a great situation ..
The mics will really only be 6 feet or less from the desktop. But you always want extra cable lengths in case I have to go around something. So 12 feet seemed appropriate. Nothing worse that buying too short.

No question you are right...poor place for monitors.
However, I have a second set of speakers that I can place anywhere in the living room. I can quickly move them around. As I am running old style amplifier with A & B sets and long run of high quality speaker wire.

And realistically, I will monitor through headphones for recording quality. As far as mixing, I intend to hire out for that. Regardless of where I place the speakers, or how good a room you have...mixing is something that I am better off leaving to someone else. An entirely different opinion I have about recording though; I believe that I will have the best knowledge for recording myself. Because, my style of playing is slightly different. Because I have and will go to greater lengths of time in order to experiment. In a recording studio...we are time constricted. There of course are exceptions. Vocal recording....I might be better off in a studio with more mic selections.

I sometimes teach Wood arrow & Flemish string making. While the Bow itself is the most expensive part of archery...the Arrow and the string can make the biggest difference in accuracy. But most people don't realize that. They place all the trust in the bow itself. There are just too many variables depending on your shooting styles, bow weight & limb lengths, and arrow spine. Nobody is going to spend all the time needed to make a perfect arrow or string as you will. it is just not economical. In many ways recording is much like this. You certainly would not use the same techniques and equipment for recording Pete Townsend as you Would Michael Watts.

I taught a Flemish String class at a traditional rendezvous in Pennsylvania many years back. There was a commercial string maker that attended my class. She was extremely interested in learning my technique. Half way through the class She threw up her arms and said " I am sorry, there is no way I could spend all the time you are, and make a profit!"

I have a feeling that most of us here pretty much feel the same way about why we record ourselves. Otherwise we all would have just hired out a recording studio. Hopefully that is the case...that we can record ourselves a little bit better.

On the plus side...a living room with an open wall that goes right into a den. Plus I have recessed skylights. So the room even with out baffling sounds pretty good. With sound panels then it becomes very reasonable. Or...so I hope. I will find out soon enough when I get down to business.....recording business that is.
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2022, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
The mics will really only be 6 feet or less from the desktop. But you always want extra cable lengths in case I have to go around something. So 12 feet seemed appropriate. Nothing worse that buying too short.
Some confusion ? I was not asking about the distance to the mic's ,,, you said a 12 ft HDMI cable which would indicate the possible distance between the computer and the display ??? and I was asking why that distance would be the case ?


Quote:
On the plus side...a living room with an open wall that goes right into a den. Plus I have recessed skylights. So the room even with out baffling sounds pretty good. With sound panels then it becomes very reasonable. Or...so I hope. I will find out soon enough when I get down to business.....recording business that is.
.

Here is something I just stumbled on that is a stark example of what absorption panels can do for a room
Now there is a lot extraneous blather but from about 1:00 on the difference between the untreated room and the treated is quite noticeable .

I believe he is describing Owens Corning 703 or equivalent

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Last edited by KevWind; 06-24-2022 at 07:31 AM.
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2022, 08:41 AM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Some confusion ? I was not asking about the distance to the mic's ,,, you said a 12 ft HDMI cable which would indicate the possible distance between the computer and the display ??? and I was asking why that distance would be the case ?


.

Here is something I just stumbled on that is a stark example of what absorption panels can do for a room
Now there is a lot extraneous blather but from about 1:00 on the difference between the untreated room and the treated is quite noticeable .

I believe he is describing Owens Corning 703 or equivalent
Yes I have acoustic panels and building some more.

The Idea of my studio is quick put up and take down. As an example...I have quick releases not only for the microphones...but for the Boom Arms. This enables me to have a living room that is for company, Movie watching, dining, and my other hobbies as well as recording.

When I record acoustic guitar, I face the opposite direction of the computer desk. Thus, I can not see the guitar's recording levels. The idea of the long 12 foot cable...is to be able to move the monitor to be in front of the microphones so I can see the recording levels. Again...a quick turn about...a quick recording set up. I can go from my normal sit at desktop function...to recording viewing of levels function, simply by picking up the computer and moving it.

Frank's suggestion about using a smaller Tablet is one that I have been contemplating. I did not know about the remote apt. That would solve any extra cabling at all. The Tablet is small enough & light enough that I could lift it to eye level to see just the recording levels. However, a Tablet might cost as much as a small monitor? And In order to use the remote apt would I need to pay for a telephone service? I will need to investigate this more. I do not use a smart phone. Still a land line user. One of the few left.
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  #21  
Old 06-24-2022, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
When I record acoustic guitar, I face the opposite direction of the computer desk. Thus, I can not see the guitar's recording levels. The idea of the long 12 foot cable...is to be able to move the monitor to be in front of the microphones so I can see the recording levels.
OK I see ...of course everyones situation is different . I face my computer desk and displays but simply record back from them about 8 ft and have long enough mic cables to accommodate that.


Quote:
Frank's suggestion about using a smaller Tablet is one that I have been contemplating. I did not know about the remote apt. That would solve any extra cabling at all. The Tablet is small enough & light enough that I could lift it to eye level to see just the recording levels. However, a Tablet might cost as much as a small monitor? And In order to use the remote apt would I need to pay for a telephone service? I will need to investigate this more. I do not use a smart phone. Still a land line user. One of the few left.
Most DAW's support a mobile app for wireless connection to the computer I use an iPad But it works wifi to the computer so it does not use any phone service . It allows me trigger the transport in PT to record (and it does have a the level meters also)
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2022, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
When I record acoustic guitar, I face the opposite direction of the computer desk. Thus, I can not see the guitar's recording levels. The idea of the long 12 foot cable...is to be able to move the monitor to be in front of the microphones so I can see the recording levels.
OK I see ...of course everyones situation is different . I face my computer desk and displays but simply record back from them about 8 ft and have long enough mic cables to accommodate that.


Quote:
Frank's suggestion about using a smaller Tablet is one that I have been contemplating. I did not know about the remote apt. That would solve any extra cabling at all. The Tablet is small enough & light enough that I could lift it to eye level to see just the recording levels. However, a Tablet might cost as much as a small monitor? And In order to use the remote apt would I need to pay for a telephone service? I will need to investigate this more. I do not use a smart phone. Still a land line user. One of the few left.
Most DAW support a mobile app for wireless connection to the computer I use an iPad and use the But it works wifi to the computer so it does not use any phone service . I allows me trigger the transport in PT to record and delete takes (and it does have a the level meters also) It is mostly just for my convenience so I don't have to keep moving from the mic /record position to computer for recording
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2022, 12:11 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Just to further clarify:

Turning around and facing my open room with acoustic panels, sounds better than facing a corner with acoustic panels.

No matter how I arrange, there will also be less than perfect sets ups. My preamps and compressors will not be in front of me when recording. Luckily I have a very wide vision and can still see the VU's and Led meter settings of my outboard gear. It is not a perfect viewing, but it will work.
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  #24  
Old 06-24-2022, 04:25 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Not sure why the knowledge about Logic Pro X was so hard to get. It could be that the folks you asked heard a difficult rather than simple question.

If you own any version of Logic Pro X (ever 10.0.xx) you can (and probably should run on your new Studio Mac) the newest version at no extra charge. I jumped to Logic X as soon as it came out, and upward compatibility hasn't ever been an issue. User interface has some modest changes, and there are a great many new features, some of which I've never used, so they don't "bother me."

But you asked about transferring your older version of Logic. and that may have stumped the Apple people. Not out of licensing legality, but if it would even work on newer computer hardware and a newer version of MacOS. I'd think the reason no one knows that (if that was the question) is no one (or close to no one) wants to do that. Thinks like any older sessions you have or templates should transfer over for your old Logic when you move your user data by hand or with with Apple migration assistant. The old software itself has no reward to it's install.

A first install of Apple Logic Pro X and all its VI instrument library does take a good deal of time over the Internet, but you can basically tell it to go get everything and let it go about its business. I myself wouldn't pay $199 to have Apple do it if I already had a license, but then I'm cheap.

If you end up using an external drive for VI sample libraries (I do) you can later tell Logic to move all the free with Logic VI sample libraries to another drive after everything is downloaded and installed.
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  #25  
Old 06-24-2022, 06:27 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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If you end up using an external drive for VI sample libraries (I do) you can later tell Logic to move all the free with Logic VI sample libraries to another drive after everything is downloaded and installed.
I need to investigate more on all of the potential ways to use an external drive for VI Samples...Or uploading to the cloud. All of that is a bit fussy on how it all works right now. On some VI Symphonic videos...I see that the author has loaded up all of his instruments so that he can access them in an instant. I suppose he has created a Template of sorts just for this?

I have decided to get the middle ASUS monitor for $399. I will purchase it about a week before the new computer is expected to arrive in late July.

I also assume that if I wanted to, I could still edit 4K on a 1441? The only difference would be that I would not be able to see all of the 4K clarity? Or are there other problems directly related to not having a high enough refresh rate?
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Old 06-24-2022, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
I need to investigate more on all of the potential ways to use an external drive for VI Samples...Or uploading to the cloud. All of that is a bit fussy on how it all works right now. On some VI Symphonic videos...I see that the author has loaded up all of his instruments so that he can access them in an instant. I suppose he has created a Template of sorts just for this?

I have decided to get the middle ASUS monitor for $399. I will purchase it about a week before the new computer is expected to arrive in late July.

I also assume that if I wanted to, I could still edit 4K on a 1441? The only difference would be that I would not be able to see all of the 4K clarity? Or are there other problems directly related to not having a high enough refresh rate?
Yes I can edit 4K video on either of my displays the 2020 5K Retina iMac and a 2010 Apple Cinema (which I think is actually 1080).... The iMac a little bit sharper and brighter BUT my the Cinema is fine for editing and you can definitely see the difference even on it, between 4K and 1080 video .

Here with a typical PT session The iMac is on the right and the Cinema is on the left I will post a better photo tomorrow

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Last edited by KevWind; 06-24-2022 at 08:23 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-25-2022, 11:11 AM
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OK so here are some more photo's Also must correct an error the 27" Apple Cinema actually supports up to 2560 by 1440 pixels, which is why I guess it seems fine for 4 K video

Sorry about the room reflections these were quick iPhone 10 photos and are untouched

So again. the Cinema on left the 5K iMac on right
as you can see the color is slightly different but fairly close (the Cinema seems to have a bit more blueish cast in the white),,,, the 5k is just a bit brighter and a tiche sharper


Cinema


iMac
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2022, 04:10 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Default THEY LIED!!!!!!!!!

I was told that it would come in July 26th....

But instead I got this notice that my Mac Studio MI MAX is IN!!!!

Totally unprepared...ha ha..As I had not yet bought the monitor and KeYboard and mouse. Why buy Early = I said? Did not want to have a brand new monitor sitting around for a month or more.

* So I just now Took KevWind's advice and bought the middle grade ASUS 27 inch Pro Art CV from B&H... Good news is it went down $30 since I last check a couple of weeks ago. Will come in July 6th.

** Will take in my computer tomorrow or Monday, to have them transfer over all of the old information. It takes two days. So I assume I will get the computer in hands Tuesday or so, which I will still have to wait till the 6th for my new monitor.

Now I am rushing to clean up my computer and throw away every necessary item on it. As I have so many hobbies, I had thousands of articles and items that I have been interested in. Not to mention several thousand photos. I am a bit of a computer horde...messy screen.

They caught me totally off guard. Well, in reality it is a good thing coming early. Just was not expecting this in the least.

*** on an interesting note...it seems Apple now offers their typical white mouse in Black and silver. That is the only difference but they are charging an extra $20 for that color option. White is good for me. Certainly not worth twenty bucks more.
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