Studying for First Build

[KADA]

I am planning out my first guitar build. While looking at side bending options I am thinking of building a Fox Bending Jig with Incandescent Bulbs as a heat source. Is there a negative to heating the side in a steam box prior to loading on the jig.

[Imbler]

Originally Posted by KADA

I am planning out my first guitar build. While looking at side bending options I am thinking of building a Fox Bending Jig with Incandescent Bulbs as a heat source. Is there a negative to heating the side in a steam box prior to loading on the jig.

Sometimes "too much" moisture can cause problems like rippling or cupping depending on the wood being bent. Some people still use steam boxes, but I would imagine it is a pretty small number.

The fox form with bulbs will work, but everyone I know who upgraded to blankets for their fox bender are happy with their choice.

It depends on your budget, of course. I have seen people reporting the blankets are much cheaper on ebay than from the luthier supply houses.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by KADA

Is there a negative to heating the side in a steam box prior to loading on the jig.

It's akin to wearing a belt and suspenders. Either one will work: doing both is unnecessary/overkill.

If using a Fox bender, you need only surface-wet the sides just before inserting in the bender.

If it's of any use to you, I have, on my website, "sketches" of the Fox bender as it existed in the late 1970's: http://charlestauber.com/luthier/Resources.html.

I still use the same bender I made then, though I've modified it for cutaways and, about two years ago, switched from light bulbs to a heating blanket. The blanket really is better, though the light bulbs worked well-enough for more than three decades of side bending.

[KADA]

Thanks , I am trying to keep costs down to start with. Was looking at using black walnut for sides and back

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by KADA

Was looking at using black walnut for sides and back

It's a nice wood and works (i.e. machines/planes) easily.

[KADA]

thank you Charles. I have a good set of plans for Jig but it doesn't specify the size of springs , would you have info on that. Also do you recommend spring steel straps with the light bulb technique

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by KADA

I am planning out my first guitar build. While looking at side bending options I am thinking of building a Fox Bending Jig with Incandescent Bulbs as a heat source. Is there a negative to heating the side in a steam box prior to loading on the jig.

If its your first build, you can always get someone local to bend them for you, then you can just buy or make a hotpipe to tweak the fit to a mold.

I personally bend many sets of sides for some local aspiring builders (I have a commercial LMII bender), building a bender is not hard, but it can absorb a lot of your building time making the bending mold and the bender and sourcing heat lamps and so forth, its still high probability thereafter of cracking the sides during the bend.

Steve

[printer2]

My current thoughts is to make a mold the size I want and do the bulk of the bending by hand on a pipe and let the blanket set the wood to the exact shape on the mold. Originally I just did the waist bend on the pipe but added bout bends to it. No more cracked sides due to the feedback you get while hand bending and the exact shape using the mold. Walnut is a good wood for a first bend.

[H165]

but everyone I know who upgraded to blankets for their fox bender are happy with their choice.

....including me.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by KADA

thank you Charles. I have a good set of plans for Jig but it doesn't specify the size of springs , would you have info on that. Also do you recommend spring steel straps with the light bulb technique

Just out of curiosity, what is the source of the plans?

The springs are nothing special and depend upon the position and sizing of your bender components. The point on the side of the bender to which the springs attach should provide some force both adjacent to the waist, where the spring-loaded things start from, and at the butt end of the shape. They then "go over the hump" being stretched further at or near the widest part of the upper or lower bouts. Y

You want a pretty stiff spring that'll stretch about 1-1/2" to 2" at the two end points mentioned above. So, the length should be determined from those two positions to the pivot on the side of the bender, minus about 2".

I've always used spring steel, as did the early Fox benders, but it doesn't have to be. It should be stainless so that it doesn't rust when it gets wet, but you can try to keep the slats dry - and the sides clean - by wrapping the damp sides in aluminum foil before putting them into the bender.

Originally Posted by mirwa

sourcing heat lamps and so forth

Making the bender does take time away from building, for sure. However, the parts are simple and available at any hardware store: porcelain sockets, regular incandescent light bulbs, aluminum foil and a standard dimmer switch, if you want.

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by KADA

Thanks , I am trying to keep costs down to start with. Was looking at using black walnut for sides and back

You can keep cost down by building with pre-bent sides that are supplied in a kit.

Have you considered a kit as a first build?

[mercy]

incandescant bulbs arent in stores in California anyway. I dont know if it is nationwide or not. Just mentioning it as that may be a problem. I can vouch for the fact that a bulb bender works.

[H165]

I use press screws, but you might want to look at the bender used by Kevin Ryan. It's a Fox general design, but uses clamps instead of press screws and springs. Seems to me a simpler design than the original Fox. Ryan soaks his wood, and uses a blanket. He uses spring steel instead of stainless. Bending around 300 degrees. As you can see on his guitars, no problem bending very tight cutaways on high-value sets.

What sources are you using for your bender parts? I'd avoid ordinary plywood unless you are planning very little use.

[printer2]

I am still using aluminum flashing for roofing.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by JonWint

You can keep cost down by building with pre-bent sides that are supplied in a kit.

Have you considered a kit as a first build?

After trying to learn by building from scratch I'd recommend this. LMI has been having lots of sales on their kits. I'd be looking at one of those if I didn't already have a couple of projects stalled in mid build.

I feel that "jigging up" and experiencing frustration over minutia and side projects like this killed a LOT of momentum in my first two builds. If you have to build something to bend sides and are going to use a wood like walnut that bends easily, then I'd recommend fashioning a rudimentary bending iron using some plywood and screws and metal with a torch as a heat source.

Bending sides was certainly a very satisfying part of the build, but it's pretty much over in a day and then a bending machine sits in the corner while the rest of your shop slowly gets buried in sawdust. I'd recommend learning how to sharpen a wide variety of blades and scrapers and make that part go much more smoothly because that's where the tedium lies.