J45 Deluxe

[wblock77]

I'm receiving this one tomorrow and am excited. 1975 Norlin era Deluxe in horrible condition which is perfect for me. Low value, not really collectable but still a J45 less some volume. I'm planning to do a pretty major restore on this with neck and back off (needs neck reset and lots of braces loose and cracks to fix). Binding is shot too. I also watched a restoration video on the same guitar and the bridge plate was plywood. The guy swapped in tone wood for it. Think I'll do that too. I'm thinking I will stop short of refinishing as that really isn't horrible. My main goal is to make it playable and generate that Gibson sound. It is my favorite for recording but not so much for playing. Can I get your thoughts on refinishing? Will it affect tone much?a.jpg

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[wblock77]

Received this item today and am pleased. Lots of things wrong with it but all things I can handle. I was worried there would be more. The seller was very thorough with the problem descriptions, and I am not finding any surprises. Now that I have it in front of me, I am pleased to report that it doesn't seem that I will have to take the back off after all. That is a relief.

[Will B.]

I wouldn't worry about how refinishing would change the tone on a Norlin Era Gibson.
The main problem with them is that they were double X braced and then the diamond created was filled with a plywood bridge plate. Nearly impossible to remove!
Some of them sound bad, some okay but I never played one that was great.
It looks like a worthy project. Enjoy the experience!

[wblock77]

Thanks for the reply. I intentionally bought the Norlin as I'm slowly developing my skill set. My last purchase was a low end Martin that sorely needed a neck reset. It came out fine, It also needed a new back so I made one of those. Also fine with a 20 degree radius. I thought I would practice my routing skills and put binding on it (it didn't have any). That was OK but I wouldn't call it fine. I didn't realize it had laminate sides when I bought it for cheap. Tear out was a problem. I touched it up and ended up giving it to the grandkids to play with. This is my next step up. I learned a lot with the Martin. Mostly don't ever work on one with laminate sides. LOL. I've seen 2 videos addressing the diamond. One guy had the back off already and routed it mostly out and then chiseled the remains. Made a new one from tone wood. The second video just put a thin tone wood backing plate on it (no back removal). The first video is the only one that would have helped the tone. I'll check the flatness when I do the bridge replacement on this one. Maybe I'll take it off after I get the rest of this stuff fixed. I just think it is fun. I don't really need another guitar but it beats hanging out in a bar.

[wblock77]

The binding on this needs replaced. I'd like to stick with the tortoise shell look but am not finding any thick enough. I'm measuring that I need a 3.2 + mm depth. Is it possible to double up two thinner pieces and glue one on top of the other?
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[Fathand]

Originally Posted by wblock77

The binding on this needs replaced. I'd like to stick with the tortoise shell look but am not finding any thick enough. I'm measuring that I need a 3.2 + mm depth. Is it possible to double up two thinner pieces and glue one on top of the other?
Attachment 87834

Tortoise shell binding is relatively easy to find in 6mm tall x 1.5 mm thick. (1/4" x1/16" roughly) . I have bought it on Amazon and aliexpress. It can be cut down in height with a fine tooth bandsaw and a zero clearance insert.

The pics of your guitar look like about 1/4" depth tall or height) or are you asking about the thickness/width and including the purfling in your measurement. Purfling being the separate striped portion about 1.5 mm wide x1.5mm tall that goes inside the binding and is visible from the top.


If you do have an odd size binding you could make wood binding any size you like.

[wblock77]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The binding needs to be 7mm tall x 3.2 mm thick . The 3.2 thickness will be visible from the top.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by wblock77

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The binding needs to be 7mm tall x 3.2 mm thick . The 3.2 thickness will be visible from the top.

There is an adhesive, Weldon 16, that is used for gluing on bindings. If you cannot find 3.2 mm binding, it will probably work well to glue bindings together. My experience is that it causes some "swelling" when used. I would experiment with small pieces first. Some people have luck using acetone to glue bindings together and there is always super glue.

[dilver]

Looks like a fun project. I own a 74 SJN Deluxe. These old Norlin boxes don’t get a lot of love, but once the serious issues are addressed, they’re decent players. I had to have the bridge replaced, neck reset, and refretted it. The top has also sunken due to a shrinking pickguard. Despite its issues, I keep it as it’s not super vintage or valuable, but it’s still sounds and plays nice and has an old guitar vibe.

[wblock77]

Fathand -Thanks for the Weldon tip. I will order some today. I'm starting to think I may take up the space with more purfing. Either way, I'll be gluing two pieces in. I don't get why this binding is thicker than the norm. Maybe for the same reason the braces are thicker and an extra X was added.
Dilver - Yes, Not sure why but I really like doing this stuff. Yes, it is fun. I'm not ready for the big leagues so this one is perfect. Love the old guitars.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by wblock77

Fathand -Thanks for the Weldon tip. I will order some today. I'm starting to think I may take up the space with more purfing. Either way, I'll be gluing two pieces in. I don't get why this binding is thicker than the norm. Maybe for the same reason the braces are thicker and an extra X was added.
Dilver - Yes, Not sure why but I really like doing this stuff. Yes, it is fun. I'm not ready for the big leagues so this one is perfect. Love the old guitars.

It's not normal because it was the 70s!

My limited experience with binding suggests gluing one strip of binding to the guitar then adding the 2nd rather than gluing them both together before applying. Also, the seam is likely to show so if you put black or another contrasting colour binding inside the tortoise it should look like you planned it that way for decorative purposes.

[wblock77]

I started my restore today and fixed some cracks by suction cup injecting, clamping and cleating. Looking at the crack near the sound hole has got me perplexed as to how it happened. There is a thin brace (tone bar maybe) that somehow got under the main brace and forced it up. Looking at the wood discoloration, maybe it was built like that and just sandwiched in? It only goes in a little bit. Gues I'll just trim it back and re-glue the top to the brace where it came up. Maybe it's hard to see this without having it in front of you. Maybe one of you have seen this before.
Soundhole crack2.jpg

soundhole crack3.jpg

soundhole crack4.jpg

[wblock77]

this might help to see the bigger picture.
Soundhole crack5.jpg

[Rudy4]

Make sure you don't re-glue any part of the transverse brace or Popsicle bracing until you repair the top block position.

This guitar has the classic top block slippage caused from a crack along the fret board edge. This makes all of the neck geometry wacky and you have to get it back in position and reinforce that crack before you repair the out of position transverse brace, otherwise you end up causing yourself a lot more work.

The classic symptom of this is the offset area at the edge of the sound hole.

[wblock77]

Wow Rudy. Thanks so much. I hadn't considered that. I have to pull the neck for a reset anyway and I have most of the binding off the top. Do you think I will have trouble getting the dovetail apart with a "slipping" block? I'm reading with interest, this article where he cuts off the fingerboard extension. https://hazeguitars.com/blog/gibson-...set-curveballs