COVID-19 (Cont'd #8)

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by flagstaffcharli

This captures something that has really been bothering me. I have heard this same thing about how COVID-19 is really only a problem if you are old or suffer from conditions that make you more vulnerable. I heard today, “Seems like everybody is 86 or something.” That came from a guy I otherwise really like.

When did we become a society/nation/community that discarded people simply because they were vulnerable? (And yes, I see there is an argument to be made that we have always been exactly that.) I can’t accept that. I find that sort of attitude repulsive.

My father-in-law is in his mid-eighties with a great sense of humor. He is sharp as a tack, and my kids adore him. But if he gets COVID, I don’t think he makes it. I’m not ready to give him up. I want to see him go as long as possible. Just a great guy.

We should take this seriously and do our best to reduce the spread. It is basic human decency. ICUs are filling in certain regions. If your region hasn’t suffered that yet, don’t allow it to happen by being careless or indifferent.

This is an important post. My parents are in their nineties and have been feeling depressed & trapped in their home. When I tried to offer a hopeful message about people working on Covid treatments and vaccines my mother said — “yeah we’ll be way at the back of the line when they become available. We’re the throw aways.“

[tbeltrans]

As president of the board in our 72 unit condo association, an observation I have from over 30 years living here and much of that on the board in some capacity, is that many people think only of their own immediate need, rather than the larger picture that encompasses the entire community or at least those in the immediate vicinity.

This can cause problems because there are times when the actions of one person can adversely affect those around him or her. Usually, any resulting trouble could have easily been avoided by simply widening one's scope of reference to include consideration for those around him or her.

This is an issue I see with the attitudes of some folks in this COVID-19 pandemic situation. It seems to be a part of human nature that some grow beyond and others simply don't. I don't have an explanation for why some folks grow to see beyond themselves and others don't. I can only offer the observation based on first hand experience having to deal with certain situations over many years.

Tony

[AX17609]

Cluelessness comes from surprising places. I just got an email from one of the members of my little retiree scientific discussion group. These are former public health colleagues who have been sharing articles on Covid for months. He wants to get together in a local restaurant for lunch. I'm thinking, "are you nuts?"

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by AX17609

Cluelessness comes from surprising places. I just got an email from one of the members of my little retiree scientific discussion group. These are former public health colleagues who have been sharing articles on Covid for months. He wants to get together in a local restaurant for lunch. I'm thinking, "are you nuts?"

It’s definitely a calculated risk. We choose what we choose.
I had lunch with three family members from out of state a month ago.
No Covid 19 for anybody.

[RedJoker]

We celebrated Dad's 80th birthday over the weekend. Though most of the attendees are skeptical of the risk of Covid, everyone wore masks inside the house and when we were close to each other. True, the mask may not have helped but no one saw a real downside to wearing them either. We all wear them all day at work so a few more hours on the weekend is an extremely minor inconvenience.

[Maryc-k]

As for "it only affects older individuals adversely", that is a myth. I think now that the infection numbers of those under 40 yrs old have risen and are continuing to rise, we are going to see some real eye-opening data. It's sad, because much of this was totally avoidable.

While many of the younger patients will survive, many will struggle with fatigue, asthma, and other respiratory issues for a long time, maybe for life. You rarely hear about these cases, but they are out there, and the numbers are climbing. These individuals have and will become part of the "vulnerable" category, especially to the flu, pneumonia, and other illnesses.

My grandfather had a saying: Don't spit up in the air, it will eventually land on your head.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Haasome

This is an important post. My parents are in their nineties and have been feeling depressed & trapped in their home. When I tried to offer a hopeful message about people working on Covid treatments and vaccines my mother said — “yeah we’ll be way at the back of the line when they become available. We’re the throw aways.“

I have a friend who is 72 who is a hemophiliac. He contributes more to this world than anyone else I know (I’ll skip the details). For him, any medical procedure is a complicated and risky. He is very cautious about coronavirus exposure; in his words, “If I have to go to a hospital, they’ll leave me in a gurney in the hall of the emergency room.”

I don’t know how decisions about who gets care ought to be made, but the emphasis on “instrumental value” (how long you are likely to be “a productive member of society”) is a bit grotesque, no matter how it is rationalized or justified. It reflects one of the ugly parts of our society.

[cmd612]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

As for "it only affects older individuals adversely", that is a myth. I think now that the infection numbers of those under 40 yrs old have risen and are continuing to rise, we are going to see some real eye-opening data. It's sad, because much of this was totally avoidable.

While many of the younger patients will survive, many will struggle with fatigue, asthma, and other respiratory issues for a long time, maybe for life. You rarely hear about these cases, but they are out there, and the numbers are climbing. These individuals have and will become part of the "vulnerable" category, especially to the flu, pneumonia, and other illnesses.

My grandfather had a saying: Don't spit up in the air, it will eventually land on your head.

It's not just respiratory issues, either. I don't say that to minimize respiratory problems; lung disease is not something I would wish it on anyone, but there also is growing evidence of long-term covid damage to kidneys, hearts and the central nervous system including the brain. We are still at the beginning of learning about this.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by cmd612

It's not just respiratory issues, either. I don't say that to minimize respiratory problems; lung disease is not something I would wish it on anyone, but there also is growing evidence of long-term covid damage to kidneys, hearts and the central nervous system including the brain. We are still at the beginning of learning about this.

Can’t be emphasized enough!!! It is baffling to me when people make definitive declarations about what to do that contain HUGE embedded assumptions (about whether herd immunity is possible, about the risk of the illness being exaggerated when we only know the superficial details and early statistics, about what we can expect in the Fall, etc, etc).

[robj144]

Unfortunately the death rate is increasing. I hope is was wrong when I said it would start increasing around now, but it doesn't look like it.

We had more than 800 dead here for three days in a row for the first time since the beginning of June. It will most likely get a lot worse.

There are two competing factors though. We will have more people with Covid than the peak death rate in April, but we are more prepared and the cases are more spread out. Hopefully it does not get as April.

[Maryc-k]

Originally Posted by cmd612

It's not just respiratory issues, either. I don't say that to minimize respiratory problems; lung disease is not something I would wish it on anyone, but there also is growing evidence of long-term covid damage to kidneys, hearts and the central nervous system including the brain. We are still at the beginning of learning about this.

Absolutely. My point was that the media downplays the long term effects on everyone’s health, especially on the younger populations. It’s added to their otherwise nonchalant attitude towards getting infected.

We are now seeing what legal issues will arise from noncompliance of rules also. I grew up in NJ which now has a face mask rule. Lawyers are going to have a ready-made stream of income if people continue to ignore the guidelines http://gambonelaw.com/criminal-charg...id-face-masks/

[noledog]

Originally Posted by robj144

Unfortunately the death rate is increasing. I hope is was wrong when I said it would start increasing around now, but it doesn't look like it.

We had more than 800 dead here for three days in a row for the first time since the beginning of June. It will most likely get a lot worse.

There are two competing factors though. We will have more people with Covid than the peak death rate in April, but we are more prepared and the cases are more spread out. Hopefully it does not get as April.

This is saddening, but what also is sad is a conversation I had with an hospital executive, first responder, as well as a nurse case manager from a local hospital that all attested to the fact that the numbers are not genuinely accurate in that there are many of these cases that come in for other causes that are listed as COVID-19 cases and/or deaths. They said the incentive/reimbursment whatever per patient for listing them as a COVID case or death regardless of what they came in for initially was about $1850. The hospital exec told me last night that they currently have 70 Covid patients. Many of these came in for something else unrelated, yet tested positive and thus counted as hospitalized because of COVID... this is first hand facts, not "he said she said" stuff. I asked about the treatments they use and they told me HQ and/or, depending on doctor, +Zinc + an antibiotic is still regarded as helpful despite the media and bias agenda science. Our Governor said yesterday that our Florida hospitals are getting shipments of Remdesivir as part of the available protocol. Side note, the hospital CEO exec I talked to last night also told me when I asked him; "what treatment will you take should you get infected?", he replied having access to some top physicians; "my doctor gave me a script for HQ". These are folks on the front line that I trust as the best we have now until we have a for sure cure/vaccine. I stopped listening to the news and Fauci's of the world since Lancet and the media pushed the false HQ study outcome, tho they have retracted their false claims. It would be nice to have some honesty and integrity where people are prioritized more than the dollar or anyone's agenda... guess that is hopeless.

I pray for everyone's health, safety and using common sense consideration by using masks and social distancing. As a full-time musician and as my shows are coming back now, I'm grateful for the venues I play at because all of them are spacing out tables, staff are masked up and tested, patrons are required to come in with mask until seated and most all of my venues are outside in fresh air on the water with the stage 7 to 10 feet away from folks. I wear a mask on my breaks too as many folks like to come up and talk. My anti-bodoes test came back negative Wednesday. It's the best I can do as I try to make a living and I'm grateful for it. I pray the best for my fellow AGF'rs too, be well...

[ahorsewithnonam]

Originally Posted by noledog

This is saddening, but what also is sad is a conversation I had with an hospital executive, first responder, as well as a nurse case manager from a local hospital that all attested to the fact that the numbers are not genuinely accurate in that there are many of these cases that come in for other causes that are listed as COVID-19 cases and/or deaths. They said the kick back per patient for listing them as a COVID case or death regardless of what they came in for initially was about $1850. The hospital exec told me last night that they currently have 70 Covid patients. Many of these came in for something else unrelated, yet tested positive and thus counted as hospitalized because of COVID... this is first hand facts, not "he said she said" stuff. I asked about the treatments they use and they told me HQ and/or, depending on doctor, +Zinc + an antibiotic is still regarded as helpful despite the media and bias agenda science. Our Governor said yesterday that our Florida hospitals are getting shipments of Remdesivir as part of the available protocol. Side note, the hospital CEO exec I talked to last night also told me when I asked him; "what treatment will you take should you get infected?", he replied having access to some top physicians; "my doctor gave me a script for HQ". These are folks on the front line that I trust as the best we have now until we have a for sure cure/vaccine. I stopped listening to the news and Fauci's of the world since Lancet and the media pushed the false HQ study outcome, tho they have retracted their false claims. It would be nice to have some honesty and integrity where people are prioritized more than the dollar or anyone's agenda... guess that is hopeless.

I pray for everyone's health, safety and using common sense consideration by using masks and social distancing. As a full-time musician and as my shows are coming back now, I'm grateful for the venues I play at because all of them are spacing out tables, staff are masked up and tested, patrons are required to come in with mask until seated and most all of my venues are outside in fresh air on the water with the stage 7 to 10 feet away from folks. I wear a mask on my breaks too as many folks like to come up and talk. My anti-bodoes test came back negative Wednesday. It's the best I can do as I try to make a living and I'm grateful for it. I pray the best for my fellow AGF'rs too, be well...

I am still close friends with many specialists. They are furious with a lot of the incorrect information and overhyped panic that the media loves.

[Kerbie]

Honesty and integrity? When you call it a "kickback"? That suggests fraud. Do you have any evidence of that?

If the patient came in for a headache, but tested positive for COVID-19, do you believe he should NOT be listed as a COVID-19 patient?

[robj144]

Originally Posted by noledog

This is saddening, but what also is sad is a conversation I had with an hospital executive, first responder, as well as a nurse case manager from a local hospital that all attested to the fact that the numbers are not genuinely accurate in that there are many of these cases that come in for other causes that are listed as COVID-19 cases and/or deaths. They said the kick back per patient for listing them as a COVID case or death regardless of what they came in for initially was about $1850. The hospital exec told me last night that they currently have 70 Covid patients. Many of these came in for something else unrelated, yet tested positive and thus counted as hospitalized because of COVID... this is first hand facts, not "he said she said" stuff. I asked about the treatments they use and they told me HQ and/or, depending on doctor, +Zinc + an antibiotic is still regarded as helpful despite the media and bias agenda science. Our Governor said yesterday that our Florida hospitals are getting shipments of Remdesivir as part of the available protocol. Side note, the hospital CEO exec I talked to last night also told me when I asked him; "what treatment will you take should you get infected?", he replied having access to some top physicians; "my doctor gave me a script for HQ". These are folks on the front line that I trust as the best we have now until we have a for sure cure/vaccine. I stopped listening to the news and Fauci's of the world since Lancet and the media pushed the false HQ study outcome, tho they have retracted their false claims. It would be nice to have some honesty and integrity where people are prioritized more than the dollar or anyone's agenda... guess that is hopeless.

I pray for everyone's health, safety and using common sense consideration by using masks and social distancing. As a full-time musician and as my shows are coming back now, I'm grateful for the venues I play at because all of them are spacing out tables, staff are masked up and tested, patrons are required to come in with mask until seated and most all of my venues are outside in fresh air on the water with the stage 7 to 10 feet away from folks. I wear a mask on my breaks too as many folks like to come up and talk. My anti-bodoes test came back negative Wednesday. It's the best I can do as I try to make a living and I'm grateful for it. I pray the best for my fellow AGF'rs too, be well...

Yes, I've heard about these kickbacks, but have never seen concrete evidence of it so far. I'm all ears if there is evidence.

However, a very simple way to dispel most of these accusations which is to simply look at the excess death rate:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

It's hard to explain the magnitude of excess deaths (from any cause) by saying a lot are attributed to kick backs.

If someone has an explanation, please explain it to me. Again, I'm open to arguments.