Anyone prefer a magnetic soundhole pickup?

[varmonter]

For years i fought with a kk mini on a live stage. I bought various wiz bang boxes to try
And get my guitar to sound good at stage volume..always able to make it sound real good at home only to be dissapointed at a gig.

I then read a few articles ok about piezo
Discs that made it clear to me i would never
Get the sound i wanted from my kk. This article
In particular was very helpful in my decision
To trash my piezos and go with magnetic.
https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/
As it turns out it was the best move i made
In regards to my live stage sound.
Now i know foljs say mags sound too electric.
But piezos dont sound like the myth "my guitar only louder " either.... my mag. A sunrise.
Works well everywhere i plug it in.
Open mics where a nightmare with the kk.without dragging a bunch of outboard gear
along.. i dont need a thing cept guitar
now for open mics..
Piezos response is exponential.
If you hit it soft you get lets just say
A 10% increase in volume..hit 5 times as hard
And your likley to get 100% increase.
If you have a bass in the mix it will
Vibrate your top and the piezo will pick
that up as well as what your playing in a manner i can only describe as confusing.
At low volume setting/gigs as a solo artist
I think they work ok. But so few gigs are
like that...going mag was the best improvement in my live sound ive made..
Now i can concentrate on playing..

[Marshall]

I really like the clarity you get with a Mag in the mix. There are systems out there (K&K with Double Helix, and SkysonicPro1) [Possibly others} that mix a SBT with a Mag sound. Best of both worlds. They handle stage volumes nicely.

[Petty1818]

I have been listening to a lot of John Prine lately and he primarily uses a soundhole pickup. It's actually growing on me. I don't even think he uses anything universally loved, just an older magnetic pickup. I kind of like the SBT + Magnetic set up.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

I am using the same Dearmond 210 pickups I slapped on my guitars in the 1960s. Other than having to replace cables they all still work just fine. One that I really liked though was the Dimarzio DP-139. But it went out of production years back. And some day I will follow through on my threat to buy a Sunrise pickup.

I got signed to DiMarzio, and I wound up with two DP139s and they are still my favorite magnetic pickup. Later they developed the Angel pickup, which had a smaller footprint, better mounting, and a decent sound, but to me was never as good of a pickup as the DP139. For the life of me, I can't see why they discontinued the DP139 which I think is the only magnetic to rival the Sunrise.

This is my page on the DiMarzio website, and look what's in my soundhole (hint, it's not the Angel)

https://www.dimarzio.com/artists/daniel-weldon

[brancher]

Originally Posted by varmonter

For years i fought with a kk mini on a live stage. I bought various wiz bang boxes to try
And get my guitar to sound good at stage volume..always able to make it sound real good at home only to be dissapointed at a gig.

I then read a few articles ok about piezo
Discs that made it clear to me i would never
Get the sound i wanted from my kk. This article
In particular was very helpful in my decision
To trash my piezos and go with magnetic.
https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/
.

My story exactly. While I love my K&K's, they are not 'exactly' an acoustic, only louder sound. Great little pickup, but still, I get wolf tones (the old 440hz spectre), need phase correction sometimes, and K&K's do beg a decent sound guy in the club. The K&K Pure Preamp is a godsend in this regard, takes the K&K signal and really cleans it well. Seems like the more resonant the soundboard is, the more subject the K&K is to extraneous stuff. I had a Larrivee L09 for a long time that really shined with the K&K, but then again, the Larry was braced pretty stiffly, with a tight, smaller-than-dread, balanced spectrum body, so the guitar controlled the K&K well.

But I recently bought a Mojotone NC-1 and I really like it. I have it in an Eastman E6D, brings out a great sound from the guitar, grabs body sounds and blends with the string sound, and with minimal intervention. Still ain't 'just like my acoustic only louder', but really good nonetheless.

Been toying with putting an shp in my D18 and J35 as well, but - you know ....

Br

[Rick Jones]

One of the nicest –– although definitely not 'acoustic' –– sounding soundhole pickups I ever had was a Bartolini that mounted on two clear perspex plates in the soundhole. I found it in my Dad's old stuff, and have never seen another. It killed the unplugged sound of the guitar too much for permanent mounting, and it had a sort of 'jazz box' sound to it, so I never kept it in, and now I don't know where it is.

I have had all flavours of Rare Earth, two Baggs M1 (that I could never get to like), and I've had the same Sunrise for 17 years. I've owned a Seymour Mag-mic, and I trialled a Dimarzio angel. All but the Baggs M1's I liked better than any UST or SBT (and I own a Japanese Tak with cooltube preamp and a Cole Clarke Fat Lady).

For over a decade I had a dual source that had a MiSi Duo (the old gold one) that I bought from a member here, that I ran on a second output from a K&K that is attached to a capacitor pre-amp from MiSi –– I had Mikhail custom make it as an experiment.

I loved the duo, but it finally stopped taking a charge after lockdowns (ten years and many, many gigs later, so can't complain) and I replaced it with the newer MagPie air from MiSi –– which wasn't, I feel, as well-made or clear-sounding as the Duo.

I've gone back to a Sunrise in my gigging Avalon L32 with the K&K on the other output. One thing that's been an amazing discovery is that the new Orange Acoustic Pedal brings out something in the Sunrise that I never got from any other preamp. I would honestly use it single-source and not be too upset. It gets top vibration and even records your voice if you talk into it.

I did think this was because my old Sunrise pup had gone microphonic over the years, but plugged into any other preamp at all, it only senses the strings... so strange and must be down to impedances, surely?

Anyway, I had concluded that the Sunrise was still unbeatable, but then I got a Headway SAM-1, which I've only been able to use at volume once. It may be too early to say, but my initial impression of the SAM is that it may finally be the modern mag that does the Sunrise thing but without the need for an outboard preamp. Pretty incredible sounding pickup. It's fitted in an Avalon A32 at the moment and I may order a second for my L32.

[edward993]

I will absolutely agree that mags can be EQd to sound great. Far and away stomps all over piezo-only systems which, frankly, I can't stand. Whatever EQ you apply, it always sounds like a piezo ....bleaaachhhhh! The dual-source systems sound good, the full Anthem comes immediately to mind, but pure USTs are just that sound that grates me.

Mag pups: some wince at the aesthetic. But mags take EQ well, sound decent to genuinely good, and are imminently feedback proof, perfect for full bands or loud stages, but likewise solid for a solo performer.

Edward

[Brent Hahn]

I've had a few different magnetics over time. Right now it's a Baggs M80 and I like it a lot, but I do find that it hears more attack and percussion than a K&K or a mic does. Before a gig I need to spend some time practicing plugged-in to reorient my thump-to-notes ratio.

[takis.saro@gmx.]

I also useing a HEADWAY SAM-1, for Slide Acoustic Guitar ( Phosphor Bronze). For a active preEQ Mag Pickup which has a real Preamp with headroom, it is my favorite, after useing a Sunrise with a Custom Tube Di with a good EQ. I was afraid of the Headways Sam-1 inside preamp with a fixed EQ, goin to a tweed deluxe style amp.
But the clean and overdriven sounds are smooth and fat. But also going direct
with a di box to a mixer is FEIN, no need of a another pickup to mix it with.

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by takis.saro@gmx.

I also useing a HEADWAY SAM-1, for Slide Acoustic Guitar ( Phosphor Bronze). For a active preEQ Mag Pickup which has a real Preamp with headroom, it is my favorite, after useing a Sunrise with a Custom Tube Di with a good EQ. I was afraid of the Headways Sam-1 inside preamp with a fixed EQ, goin to a tweed deluxe style amp.
But the clean and overdriven sounds are smooth and fat. But also going direct
with a di box to a mixer is FEIN, no need of a another pickup to mix it with.

I have been using one too. It's not actually mine, I was loaned a guitar to 'look after' whilst a young relative is away on military service, that had one installed already. As such I haven't wanted to pull it out and have a good look at it and I was baffled by what was going on with the battery configuration. He doesn't have his battery in the spring clip for some reason and has velcro'd a battery bag inside the guitar somewhere.

I emailed Headway and they sent me the user manual (great service by them) and explained that the internal preamp is the thing that makes this pickup sound the way it does. And boy, does it sound good even straight into a Bose L1 with no matching devices at all.

As it's not my guitar, I didn't want to take it to my typical pub gigs, but I have one hotel restaurant gig that is very safe and quiet. I went early to soundcheck it and my only, very slight complaint is that it is a bit 'spiky' in the trebles at high volume, especially with a flatpick. Sunrises are 'rounder' but I think that is part of the magnetic signature and it could be that I'm just so used to that sound now that a more 'natural but loud' tone throws me a little.

At restaurant gig level volumes, I dare say it sounded pretty much as acoustic as any pickup I've ever heard yet –– and that's direct into the Bose without even a mixer in front of it (eq flat on the iPad and small amount of reverb).

In fact I used his guitar for the whole gig and was enjoying the sound so much I ran 20 minutes over my second 45 minute slot.

[nbs2005]

I've gone round and round on this for the past year. I've tried; M1a, K&K Helix, Fishman Rare Earth, Lawrence 300a and the DiMarzio Super Natural plus. I've also had a Baggs VTC and K&K pure mini in other guitars.

I use the Lawrence and the DiMarzio SN now. They are straightforward to use, sound decent, and are only in the guitars when I need them. The sound is a compromise for sure, but all picks ups are. For recording, I use mics. Even cheap mics do a better job of capturing an acoustic.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Snorse

... "I have had all flavours of Rare Earth, two Baggs M1 (that I could never get to like), and I've had the same Sunrise for 17 years. I've owned a Seymour Mag-mic, and I trialled a Dimarzio angel. All but the Baggs M1's I liked better than any UST or SBT"

Sounds like we've travelled the same roads, especially the conclusion about the M1. I especially dislike the clicking you get when you hit the body of that pickup with a pick. When it comes to straight magnetics with no other source, my favorite is a tie between a Sunrise or a DiMarzio DP139 (why did DiMarzio discontinue it, what a head-scratcher!!!), and as you know from my other thread, I'm having good luck with the SA6 Mag-Mic in my Martin. Way better luck than I've ever had with it before.

And, I still have one Sunrise and two DiMarzios DP139s that I put into my 1964 J-45 or any other guitar that I won't permanently mount a pickup into.

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Sounds like we've travelled the same roads, especially the conclusion about the M1. I especially dislike the clicking you get when you hit the body of that pickup with a pick. When it comes to straight magnetics with no other source, my favorite is a tie between a Sunrise or a DiMarzio DP139 (why did DiMarzio discontinue it, what a head-scratcher!!!), and as you know from my other thread, I'm having good luck with the SA6 Mag-Mic in my Martin. Way better luck than I've ever had with it before.

And, I still have one Sunrise and two DiMarzios DP139s that I put into my 1964 J-45 or any other guitar that I won't permanently mount a pickup into.

Sounds like it, and I bet it's not just us two! I never did get to try a DP139 or even see one in the flesh though.

I'm willing to bet you'd like the sound of the Headway SAM-1, but I've come to the conclusion that once you're happy with your plugged in sound, it's better to stop the experiments... because my experimenting lasted almost 20 years and I've ended up with the very same pickup that I started with The Mag-Mic is a fine piece of kit and I would use one again with no hesitation.

[lweb10]

Haven't tried a variety of magnetic pickups but am pretty fond of the Baggs M1in my travel guitar. It's the most fuss-free pickup for an open mic I've used (and as we all know, the last thing you need at an open mic is anything fussy - including you.)

[Al Acuff]

During my decades of gigging in rowdy So Cal beach bars I used a Sunrise pickup with a Tube DI. When you get a 12AX7 vacuum tube and a Jensen transformer in the signal path you'll hear what the Sunrise pickup can do.

Lyle Lovette uses the Sunrise/Tube DI combination. Richard Thompson has a Sunrise vacuum tube preamp. So I'm not alone in preferring the Sunrise through vacuum tubes. Kaufmann used to sell a tube preamp to go with the Sunrise. It may still be available.

During the Sally Rose Tour I saw Emmylou Harris playing her Sunrise through a mid-sixties blackface Fender Twin Reverb which was miked. It worked great! In bars I've used a Sunrise through a blackface Fender Vibroverb with a 15 inch JBL. You can rock a bar with that sound!

My guitar tech recently talked me into trying an Anthem SL system in my Waterloo guitar. Another friend gave me a Session DI. Together they make another excellent pickup and preamp combination. Not as feedback resistant as a Sunrise though.