Question about binding

[Fiddle1973]

Maybe a dumb question, but what is “Ivory ABS binding”? Is it made from real ivory?

(I’ve been looking at specs for different Guild models, looking for a new guitar under $1000 to get back into playing again, and this phrasing keeps popping up -I just didn’t want to buy a product made from real elephant tusk, if that makes any sense.)

Thx,
Fiddle

[Scotso]

It is plastic binding in an ivory color. ABS is an abbreviation for acrylonitrile butadiene styrene.

[Fiddle1973]

Thanks Scotso.

[Wade Hampton]

It makes perfect sense to avoid using real ivory in the construction of musical instruments. I live in Alaska, where the walrus in the northernmost waters have become endangered because people have been killing them for their ivory tusks alone, and leaving the carcasses and meat to spoil.

This isn't an ethical problem for many musicians in the Lower 48, because this far north we're out of sight and out of mind. They don't care if the decapitated walrus carcasses littering the beaches of the Bering Straits and the Arctic Ocean were killed for no good reason at all, just like the elephant carcasses end up the same way, dead and stinking to high heaven.

Yes, some retailers of ivory products have certification for the ivory that they sell. But once those ivory tusks are off the elephant or the walrus it's difficult - no, not difficult, basically impossible - to know whether that certification was legitimate or provided by a customs official in an impoverished African country who accepted a bribe so he can feed his family on his $50 a month salary.

Or the Alaska Natives struggling to survive in villages that no roads reach, where there's no indoor plumbing and a gallon of gas for their four wheeler is $7 a gallon and a gallon of milk is $9.

Poverty is what drives the ivory trade, poverty and desperation and indifferent middle men who don't care if the animals get destroyed so long as they can make a few bucks off it.

But the demand for supposedly legal ivory drives the illegal trade. Personally, I think selling or using either is deeply immoral and willfully obtuse about the origins and the consequences of all those transactions.

So, can you tell I have strong feelings on the subject?

Yes, every few years the Alaska Department of Fish and Game will make a symbolic arrest when people trafficking in ivory are completely indiscrete and display photos of what they've got on social media, but anyone the least bit crafty gets away with these crimes because there are serious crimes of violence in these isolated villages that are much more pressing.

Okay, I'm going to get down off my soapbox now. Sorry for venting.

At one time elephant ivory actually was used for the body binding on higher end guitars, but that hasn't been true for more than a century, the only exception being when antique guitars that have real ivory binding need to be repaired and restored. "Ivoroid" plastic binding has replaced it. Sometimes the binding is only an ivory color, but the nicest stuff does have the grain lines that real elephant ivory has.

I have several guitars that have ivoroid binding, and will be getting another in a few weeks when Kevin Kopp finishes the guitar he's building for me and ships it.

Hope that answers your question.


Wade Hampton Miller

[JayBee1404]

Absolutely nail/head Wade. All the guitars ever built and added together aren’t worth the life of even one of those animals.

Not a political statement, BTW, just a humane and humanitarian POV.

[Fiddle1973]

Thanks to all who answered my question, and thanks specially to you, Wade, for your thoughtful, measured response.
I kept reading “Ivory ABS” on different guitar specs and just couldn’t get my head around it, it bothered me, so I had to ask.

[Wade Hampton]

Thanks, Fiddle. As you probably guessed, trafficking in ivory is what my father would have called a “hot button issue” for me, and I’m not my usual jovial self when the topic arises.


whm

[tadol]

Just to add something to the discussion - ivory colored ABS is a product generated purely from petrochemicals. it is not very environmental, and is not a terribly durable material, but it is pretty cheap. Ivoroid is celluloid, made from cotton fiber and nitric acid, and is much more like wood.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Fiddle1973

Maybe a dumb question, but what is “Ivory ABS binding”? Is it made from real ivory?

(I’ve been looking at specs for different Guild models, looking for a new guitar under $1000 to get back into playing again, and this phrasing keeps popping up -I just didn’t want to buy a product made from real elephant tusk, if that makes any sense.)

Thx,
Fiddle

Hi Fiddle

Two words the advertisers use with guitars are "Ebonized" and "Ivroid" playing off of Ebony and Ivory.

"Ivroid" is white plastic.
"Ebonized" means it is dyed, stained or painted black.

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by tadol

Just to add something to the discussion - ivory colored ABS is a product generated purely from petrochemicals. it is not very environmental, and is not a terribly durable material, but it is pretty cheap. Ivoroid is celluloid, made from cotton fiber and nitric acid, and is much more like wood.

Thanks for adding this point. Ivoroid binding is different than ABS and other plastic binding that's out there.

And as usual, Wade's answer is excellent. Although we still have a way to go, we've come a long way with how we source these materials.

[mc1]

Ebonized and Ivroid,
live together in perfect harmony,
side by side on my Guild neck fretboard,
oh Lord, why don't we?

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by mc1

Ebonized and Ivroid,
live together in perfect harmony,
side by side on my Guild neck fretboard,
oh Lord, why don't we?

mc1... You should make that into a song!

[rstaight]

Watched a Phil McKnight video about how electric guitars are made cheaply. Found this interesting for how binding is applied to the body.

Manufacture's of lower cost guitars are starting to rout a groove in the blank. It is then filled a liquid or melted binding. When it cures they rout the body on a cnc router.

No additional routing, gluing, and sanding. The binding is added before the body is even cut.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

mc1... You should make that into a song!

We all know, axe stores are the same where ever you go.
There is good and bad, mmm-hmmm, in every one.

It has a certain je ne sais quoi, doesn't it? One song can change the world...

[dan!]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

It makes perfect sense to avoid using real ivory in the construction of musical instruments. I live in Alaska, where the walrus in the northernmost waters have become endangered because people have been killing them for their ivory tusks alone, and leaving the carcasses and meat to spoil.

This isn't an ethical problem for many musicians in the Lower 48, because this far north we're out of sight and out of mind. They don't care if the decapitated walrus carcasses littering the beaches of the Bering Straits and the Arctic Ocean were killed for no good reason at all, just like the elephant carcasses end up the same way, dead and stinking to high heaven.

Yes, some retailers of ivory products have certification for the ivory that they sell. But once those ivory tusks are off the elephant or the walrus it's difficult - no, not difficult, basically impossible - to know whether that certification was legitimate or provided by a customs official in an impoverished African country who accepted a bribe so he can feed his family on his $50 a month salary.

Or the Alaska Natives struggling to survive in villages that no roads reach, where there's no indoor plumbing and a gallon of gas for their four wheeler is $7 a gallon and a gallon of milk is $9.

Poverty is what drives the ivory trade, poverty and desperation and indifferent middle men who don't care if the animals get destroyed so long as they can make a few bucks off it.

But the demand for supposedly legal ivory drives the illegal trade. Personally, I think selling or using either is deeply immoral and willfully obtuse about the origins and the consequences of all those transactions.

So, can you tell I have strong feelings on the subject?

Yes, every few years the Alaska Department of Fish and Game will make a symbolic arrest when people trafficking in ivory are completely indiscrete and display photos of what they've got on social media, but anyone the least bit crafty gets away with these crimes because there are serious crimes of violence in these isolated villages that are much more pressing.

Okay, I'm going to get down off my soapbox now. Sorry for venting.

At one time elephant ivory actually was used for the body binding on higher end guitars, but that hasn't been true for more than a century, the only exception being when antique guitars that have real ivory binding need to be repaired and restored. "Ivoroid" plastic binding has replaced it. Sometimes the binding is only an ivory color, but the nicest stuff does have the grain lines that real elephant ivory has.

I have several guitars that have ivoroid binding, and will be getting another in a few weeks when Kevin Kopp finishes the guitar he's building for me and ships it.

Hope that answers your question.


Wade Hampton Miller

Best post EVER.