The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-29-2020, 10:35 PM
Fatfinger McGee Fatfinger McGee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 369
Default Tricky chord transition

I’m learning a fairly simple Mark Hanson fingerstyle arrangement of The First Noel in G. You know the tune, goes down and up to “No-o-el”, B C D, with a chord change in the middle of the word. I go from fretting the C in the melody with my index finger to a D/F# chord with my middle finger on the bass and ring and pinky on the A and D. And I just can’t seem to stick the landing cleanly, either the wrong strings or the pinkie’s too close and buzzy or I have to stop and stare at it.

Suggestions, other than practice a few hundred more times? I’m at the slowest speed I can go, I’ve started doing hand stretches before I practice, and I’m starting to think it’s a mental block.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-30-2020, 12:50 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,227
Default

to a D/F# chord with my first finger on the bass and middle and pinky on the A and D
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-30-2020, 07:42 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 14,146
Default

Let's have a look at this. I don't think it's a mental block, I think it has more to do with the difficulties of getting the fingers to move independently, a need for a new way of moving your fingers, and the precision required for clean accurate fretting. Having the ring finger planted makes movement of the pinkie difficult.

So here are the bars in question:


I added left hand fingerings in purple to the notation at the top.

So right away there is a technical hurdle, because the left hand ring finger needs to jump from the G bass note to the A note on the third string. That creates a short window to move fingers around, which makes this, as you aptly put it, a "can you stick the landing" issue.

I can think of a couple of things to do to help with this:

- after you play the C melody note, but before the next bar, lift the ring finger off the bass in preparation of the next chord. You'll be giving up sustaining the G for the whole measure, but it will make the transition easier and more fluid, and more fluid is more musical in this case. Also the ear will forgive the shortened bass since it's focusing on the melody and it's such a minor change.

- after you play the C melody note, and are lifting your ring finger, start preparing for the D/F# by hovering your middle and pinkie fingers over their next notes, so the distance they need to move is minimal. The chord should already be basically formed, or as much as can be, but just above the strings, so that when it's time to play the D/F# the index and pinkie basically just need to be placed down.

To practice this, make up a little exercise, like this:


Back and forth, back and forth, nice and slow, preparing the fingers for the next change. If you can't play this exercise cleanly and fluently, you won't be able to play the tune cleanly and fluently. But if you can play this exercise smoothly, that part of the piece shouldn't be a problem.

Last edited by mc1; 10-30-2020 at 10:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-30-2020, 10:11 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,227
Default

You're better off with I-M-P (1-2-4) fingers. Going to the D/F# is less awkward and you can play the following two notes of the measure
while giving the D/F# notes a full measure time value.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above

Last edited by rick-slo; 10-30-2020 at 10:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-30-2020, 10:45 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 14,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
You're better off with I-M-P (1-2-4) fingers. Going to the D/F# is less awkward and you can play the following two notes of the measure while giving the D/F# notes their full time value.
Although that means there will be an awkward jump with the index finger that's fretting the C melody note, it now has to hold the melody then quickly jump down to the F# bass. That seems worse to me.

I agree the melody F# at the end of the measure is bit of a issue, but you can still hold the bass for its full time and let the melody note D ring past its full time (if that's what you want) by lifting the ring finger to fret the F#.

And let's get a little more context:


Something you wouldn't have been aware of is that in the written text Mark does give some fingering instructions:
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-30-2020, 10:59 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,227
Default

Yes, I have a copy of the book. Can't say Hanson's suggestion is gospel. You can finger it either way. Pick your poison.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-30-2020, 01:11 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,923
Default

I don't have my guitar on my lap, but you might get away with just barring the 2nd chord and just lift for the open 1st string, then drop it again. I have the book, I'll try it tonight

Keep in mind there are flat finger barres and side finger barres with variations in between.
__________________
Barry


Youtube!

My SoundCloud page

Avalon L-320C, Guild D-120, Martin D-16GT, McIlroy A20, Pellerin SJ CW

Cordobas - C5, Fusion 12 Orchestra, C12, Stage Traditional

Alvarez AP66SB, Seagull Folk


Aria {Johann Logy}:
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-30-2020, 08:40 PM
Fatfinger McGee Fatfinger McGee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 369
Default

Mc1, thank you for the excellent analysis and suggestions, I will practice those exercises and keep plugging away.

Rick, I do appreciate the suggestion to play it with the index (which is typically how I play it), but it’s less musical here to my ear because I can’t keep the melody flowing (not that it’s flowing yet). Also, if I leave the index in place it’s ready to play the C in measure 4. And finally, there are several places (like measure 16) where you need to master this fingering, so you can play the C with the index over the F# in the bass.

Fun fun. Knock on spruce, I should have something halfway decent to play for the fam at Thanksgiving.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=