Memorizing Songs

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

That's one of the challenges with learning fingerstyle from tab. When I teach tunes, I usually start by teaching the melody and the chord progression, then show how to put them together. If you can play the chords and melody alone, to me, it's a better framework for remembering the tune than trying to memorize a long stream of notes without any obvious structure. I also try to put the chord shapes I'm thinking about, in any tab I write, even if I'm not playing the entire shape.

One suggestion I've heard many times for memorizing a tune is to visualize yourself playing it in your head, away from the guitar, perhaps while listening to the piece. Spaced repetition is also a pretty established technique for memorizing anything, or at least keeping it memorized.

This is what I want to try next and see how that way goes.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

Thanks. So far my method has been to memorize around 2 bars and then move on to the next two bars. I have done quite a few like that. I'm not sure if that's the best way for me.

What I would like to try is to learn the chords and melody and then look at the tab and try it. I know a lot of things I learn fingerstyle even though the tab is written out for every single note the most important thing is to make sure you have the melody notes hitting correctly and the rest you can fill in without even thinking about it. Some people who write the tabs even offer that as a suggestion so I may try that next.

Thanks again.

Hi H-man
I don't learn well in small chunks.

I'll pull a scratch recording of a song once I know the progression and melody (often the chords played at tempo), and then use that to play the song again and again and again.

If it's well known, I'll also download 2 or 3 versions and listen to them in the car, around the house, in my earbuds, while I'm shopping etc for a couple weeks, and then put them all away and begin to work through the entire arrangement.

I tend to go progression, melody, harmony. I tend to get verse, chorus, bridge down, and then accessorize it (intro, ending etc).

I have fun with the music!!

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[rllink]

Originally Posted by TBman

The OP was talking about instrumental finger style though which may have progressions in them, but aren't presented in a manner that is consistent from one tune to the next. Songs, which have vocals, have the lyrics which are sort of a homing beacon for memorization.

I realized that. But I thought that because the title of the thread wasn't specific perhaps there would be people interested in memorizing in a broader sense, so I thought that I would comment, if that's alright.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rllink

I realized that. But I thought that because the title of the thread wasn't specific perhaps there would be people interested in memorizing in a broader sense, so I thought that I would comment, if that's alright.

I get confused easily,

[rllink]

Originally Posted by TBman

I get confused easily,

I get confused easily too.

[mclarry53]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

One suggestion I've heard many times for memorizing a tune is to visualize yourself playing it in your head, away from the guitar, perhaps while listening to the piece.

I do this. It's quite helpful once I'm getting fairly familiar with a tune. It does, however require quite a bit of focus--not easy to come by these days

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

This is what I want to try next and see how that way goes.

Couple of observations
One obviously every bodies learning curve is different.

Most of what I do is song (vocal and guitar) and not finger style so consider that as a grain of salt ..... But

IMO I think Doug hit on an extremely important point (as you note above)
Learn the melody and chord progression (harmony) and not only will it likely be quicker BUT perhaps more importantly it will be, in the long run, the path to making it your own interpretation.
IMO
There is the craft of music, and there is the art of music . Memorizing tab or notation is the craft , the art is making a piece of music your own.

[LifesShort]

I try to memorize every song I play. Of course, if I don't play it for a while, it gets wiped from memory. I used to try to learn to play the song while looking at the music and then to memorize it. It was absolutely painful for me to memorize a song in this manner. After years of struggling, I found that it works much better if I memorize the song as I'm learning to play it. Also, I learn it in small chunks. I should mention that I only use tab to learn suggested fingering. I find it much easier and faster to read music than tab, but tab is definitely helpful for figuring out complicated fingering.

For me, it typically works like this:

1) open music that I've never played before
2) play the melody and find a spot in the music where there is a natural ending. This may be a full verse, but more likely, it's 4 - 8 bars. It just depends on the song.
3) I begin learning the that section at a very slow tempo. I don't play any other part of the song until I can play that section at speed and from memory. By the time I can do this, I've played that section many, many times.
4) Once I've can play section 1 at tempo and from memory, I move to the next section. The really cool thing is that I can usually learn the next section much faster because, by now, I have a feel for how to play the song and it just comes easier.

Everyone is different and this may not work for you. Good luck! I hope you hit on something quickly.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

The last couple of years I have been learning and trying to get better at fingerstyle. Over that time I have done a course and now I have a course on how to make my own arrangements which I think will be helpful once I get into that.

My question is about memorizing songs. Is there a better way to do it? I have all my fingerstyle arrangements on my Kindle in a program that will allow me to look at them while I play but I don't like doing it that way, especially if I want to play for someone. The only other alternative is to memorize the song and I have done that a few times. I usually do two bars at a time and when I am done I move on to the next two bars. To make it work I need to do this from the very beginning. I have memorized some pretty long songs doing this. Is there a better way to do it? Learn the melody first or the chords first and then go from there? It just seems that the way I do it takes a long time.

It feels really mechanical to me to play something for someone and be looking at my kindle the whole time.

The sooner you ditch the tab/kindle the better.

You need to engage your ears, first and foremost, and in your case the best way is to record yourself playing the entire piece. Of course that will entail using your Kindle, hopefully one last time.

Hopefully you'll now have a recording of the entire piece that you can listen to, over and over and over again, and for all intents and purposes: IT IS YOU PLAYING WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE TABLATURE.

You now need to be hearing the whole piece in your head while doing the dishes, mowing the lawn, etc. If your hands are free you should be playing air-guitar while it goes through your minds eye.

Once you substitute your hearing for your vision you'll be well on your way to breaking The Tabit.

You can do it.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

[islandguitar]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

The sooner you ditch the tab/kindle the better.

You need to engage your ears, first and foremost, and in your case the best way is to record yourself playing the entire piece. Of course that will entail using your Kindle, hopefully one last time.

Hopefully you'll now have a recording of the entire piece that you can listen to, over and over and over again, and for all intents and purposes: IT IS YOU PLAYING WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE TABLATURE.

You now need to be hearing the whole piece in your head while doing the dishes, mowing the lawn, etc. If your hands are free you should be playing air-guitar while it goes through your minds eye.

Once you substitute your hearing for your vision you'll be well on your way to breaking The Tabit.

You can do it.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

+1!!! This is great advice!!!!!

[TBman]

What were we talking about?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

The sooner you ditch the tab/kindle the better.

You need to engage your ears, first and foremost, and in your case the best way is to record yourself playing the entire piece. Of course that will entail using your Kindle, hopefully one last time.

Hopefully you'll now have a recording of the entire piece that you can listen to, over and over and over again, and for all intents and purposes: IT IS YOU PLAYING WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE TABLATURE.

This is very close to the discussion in a book I just read that I've mentioned elsewhere, (The Art of Brainjo), by a neuroscientist/banjo player about the brain and playing music. He makes the point, which I had not considered before, that reading tab and playing from memory use totally different parts of the brain. If true, that means you can never really memorize a piece by reading the tab over and over. Fits with things I've always heard - "get it off the paper asap" and so on, as Howard is saying. The book's suggestion is to record yourself playing it, then visualize yourself playing it while listening to yourself. The key is that you are really visualizing *yourself* playing, not dots on paper. I don't learn many tunes by other people these days, but did recently, and tried to consciously apply this. I'd be out walking and try to think thru the tune. At first, I found myself hearing the tune and realized I was "seeing" the tab, dots on the paper. I kept forcing myself to see my hands instead. I memorized the piece in a few days, well enough to record a video of it. It was a simple piece, but I think that was a record for memorizing someone else's tune for me, so I think the approach works.

[Wags]

The human capacity for memorization is prodigious. Most people barely tap into that huge potential. We are evolved for it. Stop staring at lead sheets, lyrics, tabs, while you play. You only need them for reference when you get stuck. Put the time in and you will be rewarded.

You don't own a song until you can play it and sing the lyrics without any aids. Progress comes incrementally, but it comes. When you get frustrated with your attempts it only means you're making progress. Repetition gets it done.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

This is very close to the discussion in a book I just read that I've mentioned elsewhere, (The Art of Brainjo), by a neuroscientist/banjo player about the brain and playing music. He makes the point, which I had not considered before, that reading tab and playing from memory use totally different parts of the brain. If true, that means you can never really memorize a piece by reading the tab over and over. Fits with things I've always heard - "get it off the paper asap" and so on, as Howard is saying. The book's suggestion is to record yourself playing it, then visualize yourself playing it while listening to yourself. The key is that you are really visualizing *yourself* playing, not dots on paper. I don't learn many tunes by other people these days, but did recently, and tried to consciously apply this. I'd be out walking and try to think thru the tune. At first, I found myself hearing the tune and realized I was "seeing" the tab, dots on the paper. I kept forcing myself to see my hands instead. I memorized the piece in a few days, well enough to record a video of it. It was a simple piece, but I think that was a record for memorizing someone else's tune for me, so I think the approach works.

Hey Doug,
As you well know I've been teaching for a very long time, sans tab/notation, because I don't read or write either, and YOU actually were one of the first people to take a long-distance-lesson from me via VHS-Compact video tape!

I remember all too well how hard it was to record the first one!!

When I finally thought to myself: "Howard, Doug is inside the camera. Talk to him!" the ball dropped, and it's been easy ever since!

It is so very often just a matter of climbing up a ladder in the middle of the room, and turning around. All of a sudden you have a perspective you never considered, and another tool in box!

I also highly recommend playing in front of a mirror. I just stare at my picking hand when I do that. I don't know why it works, but it helps me with parts I'm writing, or trying to clean up, etc.

I don't question it.

Anyway.......hope you're doing well!

Best,
Howard

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Hey Doug,
As you well know I've been teaching for a very long time, sans tab/notation, because I don't read or write either, and YOU actually were one of the first people to take a long-distance-lesson from me via VHS-Compact video tape!

Hey Howard, I was just cleaning out a box of old tapes a few days ago, looking for an ancient recording I'd done, and ran across your video tape. Funny looking thing (the tape, not you!) Technology has changed a lot since then, I wasn't even sure what that format was. I recall your lesson as working great at the time.

Things are a bit easier with Zoom/Skye, etc, these days, but I still find it hard to feel connected over video the same way as in person.

I've never tried practicing in a mirror - hopefully we wouldn't learn tunes backwards that way :-). I'll have to try that.