Music theory question.. 4ths, 5ths, intervals, finger style tunes..

[jasperguitar]

First up.. I got the fretboard down. Took awhile, but with encouragement from Doctor B, and others, I kept at it. I still begin each practice session with a few minutes of fretboard knowledge. I pick out the notes, play progressions, etc.

I am kinda getting into finger style playing. I like the sound of the combination, chords/tunes. As I play along, and listen to some playing on
you tube, I notice that between full chords, many songs/players use double stops [ melody note, with second note harmony ]. I have been busy studying chord, chord structure. I will sit and play root/5th ... or root 4th .. etc.

I got wondering. What is the best harmonic combination? Say I'm playing a song, and between two chords I need to play a couple of melody notes, and I want to give the melody notes more of a full feel.. or double stop.

Is the root with 5th the prefered .. or root/4th.. root/6th..

I'm starting to practice getting the position into my head, so I can move up and back down the neck.. playing the double stop harmonies..

Any thoughts, suggestions.. etc.

[bishopdm]

To start, I would suggest you first play the melody note you like, then add a third or a sixth below it. Which third or sixth (minor or major) to add will most likely be determined by the key (or the key of the moment). You could also try parallel fourths or fifths, but they might sound a little odd to your ears. This is a quick answer and is not meant to be exhaustive. But it will get you started.

[jasperguitar]

Let me see if I have your answer correct.

Say I play a C ..

Add an A . which is the minor third?

But below...

The A, is also the 6th ..

Are you saying play a minor third with the root on top?
Which is also the same as the 6th .. ??

I will try this..

Of course the major third below the root .. would be
A flat ..

Or ............ are you saying play the major or minor third that
corresponds to the key/scale of the tonal note?

Ha Ha .. this is fun.

[Brent Hutto]

Take a song you're real familiar with but you think it needs few double-stops to fill it out. Play the melody through once then go back and play the melody one note at a time. With each note, try several notes in the octave or so immediately below it. There should be one or two that sound real good in context of your melody. Just trial-and-error each note at a time and pick one that sounds good.

[Howard Klepper]

Melody note on top. What David is suggesting (and which sounds pretty) is to play a sixth below that note--either a major or minor sixth depending on which note is in the scale. So if you are in C major and the melody note is C, also play the E below it. If you are in C major and the melody note is D, also play the F below it.

There is no "sounds best" dyad. It will depend on the situation. You won't go wrong adding the note a fourth below (e.g., adding the G below a C melody note), but it won't be as pretty as going down a sixth.

People often call this playing in thirds, because the note you are adding is a third up from the melody note, but played an octave lower.

[jasperguitar]

"People often call this playing in thirds, because the note you are adding is a third up from the melody note, but played an octave lower." .. Thanks for this post.. I am kinda getting it now. So, to get interesting I can play a minor third only an octave lower, or major.. makes sense ..

I will goof with this tonight.

The guitar, as I am learning, is not an instrument, it is an experience.

[Brent Hutto]

Here is a link to my first fully worked-out chord melody arrangement, arrived at by the trial-and-error process I mentioned. The song is "Silent Night" in the key of D with mostly two intervals (a triad) and the melody note always on top.

It's for mandolin and is accompanied by mandolin tablature but from the notation you can get an idea of the intervals and triads I ended up with by the "hmm, that one sounds good" method.

[bishopdm]

Hey Jasperguitar: I'm glad you're enjoying this. Let us know what you come up with; I'd like to hear how you're doing!

[jseth]

Nice work Jasperguitar! You are really covering some ground... 3rds and 6ths are my favorites, although sometimes I'll use 4ths (you can "stack" them, 3 or more at a time) if the song calls for some mystery or slightly atonal indications... once you get used to hearing 4ths together, they begin to sound more normal, IME...

Try "outlining" a chord progression with 3rds or 6ths, or play a major scale with 3rds or 6ths... you'll hear lots of neat sounds that have been used on many a popular recording and song...

...and don't forget to go back to things you've learned before (I'm thinking of a couple threads you started here and got really good answers to your question...) and incorporte them with your new-found knowledge... things will keep opening up for you as you go!

play on................................................ ......>

John Seth Sherman

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

"People often call this playing in thirds, because the note you are adding is a third up from the melody note, but played an octave lower." .. Thanks for this post.. I am kinda getting it now. So, to get interesting I can play a minor third only an octave lower, or major.. makes sense ..

The difference between whether it's major or minor is the key. Generally speaking, when using fill-in notes or passages, use the notes of the current key.
So if you were in the key of G major, and you had a C chord, and wanted something to fill in between the E and G, you'd use an F#, not an F.
The sweetest harmony with that would be a D (the diatonic note between C and E), which means a major 3rd below F#, or minor 6th above.
You don't need to know those terms (or which is which) - - just know which notes are in your key (and of course where to find them on the neck!).

IOW, whenever you're learning a new piece, esp if improvising or expanding on it, make sure you know the key scale in full, in as many neck positions as you need.
Quite often (eg in blues) there will be notes outside the key scale, which are fine; but begin with a knowledge of the key scale. You'll then appreciate how the outside ("chromatic") notes work, what kind of extra colour they bring. ("Chromatic" comes from the word for "colour" of course.
Eg, that F natural may work better in key of G than the "correct" F# - it depends on the tune and the style.

NB: learning the scale of the key of a tune may not be tricky at all. Normally it's simply all the notes in the chords you're using. Eg, if the chords are G, C and D, then they are spelling out the key scale. If you know a few shapes for each of those chords, then the scale is under your fingers already. To find those fill-in passages (notes between chord tones), just use notes from the other chords.

[Howard Klepper]

Jon, I don't think he is asking about passing tones, much less harmonized passing tones.

[stanron]

It's taken me a bit of time to put this together so apologies if I've duplicated stuff already psted.

jasperguitar

I hope this doesn't muddy the waters,

Using only the notes in the major scale, there are only 3 sets of intervals you can use to harmonise a melodic line. These are,

2nd and 7th
3rd and 6th
4th and 5th

The second is the same distance above the root as the seventh is below.
The third is the same distance above the root as the sixth is below.
The fourth is the same distance above the root as the fifth is below.

2nd and 7th intervals produce a jarring sound.
3rd and 6th intervals produce a sweet sound.
4th and 5th intervals produce a strong but sometimes sparse sound.

For making 2 note chords, thirds and sixths should be your first choice. You can adjust them up or down if there is a clash with accompanying chords. Generally the melody note will be clearer if it is the highest of the pair of notes but personal taste or practicality can lead to it being the low note.

Here is a scale of C major accompnied by the note one third below it (or the sixth)


1E--------------------------------
2B--1--3--5--6--8--10--12--13
3G--2--4--5--7--9--10--12--14
4D--------------------------------
5A--------------------------------
6E--------------------------------

Here is a scale of G major accompnied by the note one third above it.

1E--------------------------------
2B--0--1--3--5--7--8--10--12
3G--0--2--4--5--7--9--11--12
4D--------------------------------
5A--------------------------------
6E--------------------------------

Here is a scale of C with the note an octave below the third underneath.

1E--------------------------------
2B--1--3--5--6--8--10--12--13
3G--------------------------------
4D--2--3--5--7--9--10--12--14
5A--------------------------------
6E--------------------------------

There are lots of other examples of these patterns on the guitar. The pattern for the 2nd and fourth strings can be found on the first and third strings as well.

Cheers.

[jasperguitar]

Thanks .. these are great ideas, info, for me to work on.
Love this forum .. for s♪♪re. !!!

I will copy/paste/print ..

I understand keys, etc, as I was a professional trumpet player
as a kid.. but.. the trumpet only plays one note .. unless you
have two sets of lips.

This is why the guitar is so interesting. Like the piano.
Love this stuff.