Mic Parts Kit(s)?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Please tell me more about Serrano. Very interested.

Tape-Op did a review of the Serrano 87. Thought you'd be interested.

"The Serrano 87 is one of the most impressive new mics I have used in a long time, irrespective of its extremely reasonable price. The Neumann U 87 has a reputation for being good on most any source. I expected the Serrano to succeed or fail by this standard, and it definitely can be used on a host of sources. The mic stood up extremely well on both acoustic guitar and percussion. But what I didn’t expect was that it’s the best vocal mic I’ve found for my own voice..."

What a beauty!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Tape-Op did a review of the Serrano 87. Thought you'd be interested.

"The Serrano 87 is one of the most impressive new mics I have used in a long time, irrespective of its extremely reasonable price. The Neumann U 87 has a reputation for being good on most any source. I expected the Serrano to succeed or fail by this standard, and it definitely can be used on a host of sources. The mic stood up extremely well on both acoustic guitar and percussion. But what I didn’t expect was that it’s the best vocal mic I’ve found for my own voice..."

Jim great tip

How very interesting.. I have only ever had a one time experience with a Neumann U87 (the modern Ai)

But if this mic is even 80 -90 % there ?? At $800 +$25 for the wood case, it would be just a great bargain

Now in full disclosure I have only ever sung and played acoustic guitar thru a U 87 Ai. for about 3-4 hours (And it was the first time I was ever in a Pro Studio, or heard my singing/ playing through a high end LDC , and I was astounded at the sound, so may have a bit biased memory)
But I think is sounded great on my voice and guitar ...

Still amazes me the time we live in --To think that for example you could get the both the Serrano (Hand made in USA ) and if they are close to the sound of a U 87 and a pair of 84's for about 1/2 the price of just a new U 87 Ai .....humm ?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Jim great tip

How very interesting.. I have only ever had a one time experience with a Neumann U87 (the modern Ai)

But if this mic is even 80 -90 % there ?? At $800 +$25 for the wood case, it would be just a great bargain

Now in full disclosure I have only ever sung and played acoustic guitar thru a U 87 Ai. for about 3-4 hours (And it was the first time I was ever in a Pro Studio, or heard my singing/ playing through a high end LDC , and I was astounded at the sound, so may have a bit biased memory)
But I think is sounded great on my voice and guitar ...

Still amazes me the time we live in --To think that for example you could get the both the Serrano (Hand made in USA ) and if they are close to the sound of a U 87 and a pair of 84's for about 1/2 the price of just a new U 87 Ai .....humm ?

There are some small quantity builders out there who are delivering incredible value. Judging by what I've seen so far, Carlos Serrano is one of them. Audioscape is certainly on that list and you've probably seen me recommend their gear numerous times here.

I don't care for my voice on an 87 but I do love how acoustic guitars sound on an 87 and I love the 84 for the same reason. The latest tweaks on the Serrano 84 can be heard here. It's very close. Carlos says he's probably done tweaking it at this point. He also said somewhere in that thread that the 84 pair will sell in the $800-900 range when he makes them available. I'm so glad I jumped on those.

Another 87 clone also getting a lot of love in the gear community is the BeesNeez BU87i. It comes in at about $815 shipped to the US (after converting from AUD) and that includes the shockmount and a wooden case. I haven't heard it but the company has been around a long time and enjoys a pretty solid reputation. A difference worth noting between the BeezNeez and the Serrano is that the BeezNeez is cardioid only while the Serrano has cardioid, Fig 8, and omni.

Kev, I think I'm about to join you in the Latch Lake club. I have two Ultimate Support boom stands and a friend is buying one from me, so that gives me the excuse and the room I need to pull the trigger. I'm just trying to figure out if the extended range of the 3300 would be useful at some point or if the 2200 is plenty. I'm leaning towards the 3300 for a couple of reasons... #1, the longer reach would let me get the base totally out of the way, #2, the longer reach won't be in my way when I don't need it. Before this Covid thing hit, I was getting ready to put my house on the market and move. I'm still planning to move but it's not going to happen right away now. Because I don't know exactly what my setup/needs will be on the other side of that, I figure I should error on the side of maximum capability.

[Chipotle]

If we're going on about Neumann clones, 3U Audio gets raves over on another Gear forum where they can be pretty cynical. Apparently the guy who runs it has designed capsules for other high-end makers, and has put together his own line that you can only buy direct or on EBay. The Warbler MKI is supposedly very U87-like and the cardioid-only version will set you back just $300. I have one and really like it on my voice, but have never used a real U87 so don't have a reference for comparison.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

If we're going on about Neumann clones, 3U Audio gets raves over on another Gear forum where they can be pretty cynical. Apparently the guy who runs it has designed capsules for other high-end makers, and has put together his own line that you can only buy direct or on EBay. The Warbler MKI is supposedly very U87-like and the cardioid-only version will set you back just $300. I have one and really like it on my voice, but have never used a real U87 so don't have a reference for comparison.

I've heard some positive comments about the MK1 over the years and I heard a shootout once in which the MK1 was included but, as I recall, the shootout was poorly done and the levels weren't matched, so it was essentially worthless. What 3U Audio is doing is interesting. They're clone-ish but I don't really consider them clones because they do that multiple voicing stuff like my Lauten Atlantis does. In the neutral position, the Atlantis is very 47-ish to my ears but I don't call it a FET 47 clone.

To my thinking, a clone should only be trying to sound like the vintage microphone being copied and nothing else. That's not a knock on 3U, just my own opinion as to what constitutes a "clone." At $300, though, there's not much risk in people trying them.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

There are some small quantity builders out there who are delivering incredible value. Judging by what I've seen so far, Carlos Serrano is one of them. Audioscape is certainly on that list and you've probably seen me recommend their gear numerous times here.

It seems so, and I think you do this forum great service bringing them to our attention. I do remember you post's about Audioscape and am still considering an EQ...

Kev, I think I'm about to join you in the Latch Lake club. I have two Ultimate Support boom stands and a friend is buying one from me, so that gives me the excuse and the room I need to pull the trigger. I'm just trying to figure out if the extended range of the 3300 would be useful at some point or if the 2200 is plenty. I'm leaning towards the 3300 for a couple of reasons... #1, the longer reach would let me get the base totally out of the way, #2, the longer reach won't be in my way when I don't need it. Before this Covid thing hit, I was getting ready to put my house on the market and move. I'm still planning to move but it's not going to happen right away now. Because I don't know exactly what my setup/needs will be on the other side of that, I figure I should error on the side of maximum capability.

Yes I am totally pleased with my 2200.. Noting I only record me the reach is sufficient for my use ..


So as far as an 87 and voice (well my voice) I thought this little make shift quasi- A/B,,,, might hold some interest. Granted it is two different rooms and almost 20 years apart ..... But is somewhat of an example of how different mic's sound on the same voice .....

So here are two examples ::
The first one is from the previously mentioned first ever studio recording (2002) with two U87 Ai. set up one lower point up vertical for guitar and the other hanging down vertical from an elevated boom stand . FYI it also done in the One shot One Take format
The second, is same song done recently with a pair of ribbons on guitar and an ADK Z MOD 251 on my vocal

U 87 Ai



ADK 251

[AcousticDreams]

This brand new product...Not even listed on Heiserman'w web page yet..but already sold at Vintage King and Front end Audio is the new Heiserman 19.

I am looking forward to hearing demos on this mic.

They use the very same capsule as they use in their Tube and Fet mics( Capsule made in the U.S. by Heiserman)
The difference is that this mic sells for $999. Does not have a Transformer like the fet and thus the slightly less expensive price. But it is also made to sound different than their 47 even though it uses the same capsule.

I emailed Heiserman to ask them what are the sonic differences between their Fet and this new Transformerless 19. Here is what they had to say.
"Thanks for your interest! The Type 19 and 47 fet share the same capsule which does contribute quite a bit to the sound of the mics. However, the circuits and components are completely different, as well as the form factor / headbasket as you mentioned. Sonically, the Type 19 is a bit flatter from 20 hz to about 5k, and then it rolls off more steeply than the H47 fet. As a result it sounds a little warmer overall, and the lows / low mids tend to stand out a bit more. Despite being transformerless it's tuned to have a lot 'character' and it's very flattering on most sources. So far, our clients have reported that it's a favorite on acoustic and electric guitar (clean and distorted), kick drum, bass, toms, and vocals. Unfortunately, I don't have a vocal comparison with the H47fet... but we'll be working on clips and additional content as soon as possible. "

Not quite as inexpensive as the Serrano and of course a completely different sound...but at $999 I am interested to hear how this mic does.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

It seems so, and I think you do this forum great service bringing them to our attention. I do remember you post's about Audioscape and am still considering an EQ...

You really can't go wrong with Audioscape. Would the EQ be more for guitar or vocals. If vocals, I'd encourage you to consider the V-Comp instead of an EQ. That box makes vocals ooze with character in a way that I've never heard a plugin of any type be able to do.

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes I am totally pleased with my 2200.. Noting I only record me the reach is sufficient for my use ..

99% of the time, the 2200 would probably be all I need. I just figure that since the 3300 doesn't add to the footprint and hardly even increases the weight of the thing, maybe it makes sense to get that and be prepared should the need arise.

Originally Posted by KevWind

So as far as an 87 and voice (well my voice) I thought this little make shift quasi- A/B,,,, might hold some interest. Granted it is two different rooms and almost 20 years apart ..... But is somewhat of an example of how different mic's sound on the same voice .....

So here are two examples ::
The first one is from the previously mentioned first ever studio recording (2002) with two U87 Ai. set up one lower point up vertical for guitar and the other hanging down vertical from an elevated boom stand . FYI it also done in the One shot One Take format
The second, is same song done recently with a pair of ribbons on guitar and an ADK Z MOD 251 on my vocal

Wow. That's very revealing. With a couple of decades between them, I'd expect your younger vocals to beat your older vocals but the 251 is so much better suited to your voice that it easily bests the 87Ai. The 87 is a safe choice for vocals probably 90% of the time. For someone running a studio and bringing in clients, I'd call it a "must have" because while it may not be the best choice every time, it's almost always a very good choice. But anyone who is primarily recording themselves often winds up a journey of moving from mic to mic trying to figure out which is best for them. I know I went through a lot of vocal mics before landing on the Flea 47. I'm sure you did the same.

ADK is a brand that deserves more love than it gets in the community. They make great mics from the bottom of their line to the top. For several years I was using a pair of ADK A6 mics as my guitar mics. They sold for $250 each and were very good for the price point.

I think where ADK might be losing some people is in not making any attempt to replicate the shapes of the mics they're emulating. If I buy a 67-ish mic, I really want it to look a bit like a 67. All the Z MOD mics have 251 bodies (at least I think they're 251 bodies as they appear too tall and narrow to be 47 bodies but not tall and narrow enough to be C12 bodies). If they modified the bodies, I think they'd be better appreciated.

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

[INDENT]This brand new product...Not even listed on Heiserman'w web page yet..but already sold at Vintage King and Front end Audio is the new Heiserman 19.

Very interesting. Eric Heiserman is another one of those small builders doing remarkable work. If this mic delivers, it would be his first to do so at a very friendly price point. His tube 47 is very well regarded but at $3800 it's up against some very well placed competitors at around the same price. I haven't heard his FET 47 go up against the Neumann FET 47. If that mic delivers, that should be a winner for him since it's thousands cheaper than the Neumann.

The price is certainly right on the 19. I'm guessing the body shape is the main driver for keeping the price down. Not sure why he's stray so far from a 47 shape otherwise.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by jim1960

The price is certainly right on the 19. I'm guessing the body shape is the main driver for keeping the price down. Not sure why he's stray so far from a 47 shape otherwise.

A few Years ago an recording engineer told me just how much money was spent on Research & Design, Post world War II, designing things like Neumann head baskets. He told me there was a lot to it. It was not a simple thing. At the time, I did not understand. It is just a wire mesh. How could it effect the sound?

Since then I have come to understand how much a mesh can effect the sound.

Looking at the 19 head, the mesh is designed of an entirely different nature as compared to the standard mesh heads. Possibly a more transparent-less frequency effected head?

I applaud this company for taking a tried, true and loved Capsule...the 47 capsule...and reaching out into a new direction. I love when people push the boundaries of the accepted norm.

The big question for myself...is what will that dip after 5k really mean in real time usage? I eagerly await the demos.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

A few Years ago an recording engineer told me just how much money was spent on Research & Design, Post world War II, designing things like Neumann head baskets. He told me there was a lot to it. It was not a simple thing. At the time, I did not understand. It is just a wire mesh. How could it effect the sound?

Since then I have come to understand how much a mesh can effect the sound.

From what I understand, the patent on the head basket design is one of the reasons a really good 67 clone has never hit the market.

I just noticed that Austrian Audio has released an SDC, the CC8. I suspect it has a lot in common with the AKG 451. $479 for a single; $949 for a pair.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Wow. That's very revealing. With a couple of decades between them, I'd expect your younger vocals to beat your older vocals but the 251 is so much better suited to your voice that it easily bests the 87Ai. The 87 is a safe choice for vocals probably 90% of the time. For someone running a studio and bringing in clients, I'd call it a "must have" because while it may not be the best choice every time, it's almost always a very good choice. But anyone who is primarily recording themselves often winds up a journey of moving from mic to mic trying to figure out which is best for them. I know I went through a lot of vocal mics before landing on the Flea 47. I'm sure you did the same.

ADK is a brand that deserves more love than it gets in the community. They make great mics from the bottom of their line to the top. For several years I was using a pair of ADK A6 mics as my guitar mics. They sold for $250 each and were very good for the price point.

I think where ADK might be losing some people is in not making any attempt to replicate the shapes of the mics they're emulating. If I buy a 67-ish mic, I really want it to look a bit like a 67. All the Z MOD mics have 251 bodies (at least I think they're 251 bodies as they appear too tall and narrow to be 47 bodies but not tall and narrow enough to be C12 bodies). If they modified the bodies, I think they'd be better appreciated.

That's an interesting point about the body shape on the ADK mics, as it does look like all the Z Mods all have the same Body and Head Baskets. With only the guts being different .
The web page has changed, they used to list the different transformers etc. they used for the different Z- Mods. which I can't find now ? The web site says all new Z Mods coming this fall so that will be interesting to see unfold ...

Because of having made those first studio recording with the U87 Ai I had assumed that would be the vocal mic I would be getting . But through a quirky set of circumstances, I actually ended up getting a Brauner Phantom V as my vocal mic and used that for many years.

Then about 3 1/2 years ago I got a chance to audition the ADK Z Mod 67 and 251 and my Brauner, all at the same time in a fairly high end pro recording studio. Again I assumed wrong, I thought the U67 would be the choice, but in fact the 251 had a slight edge And interestingly all three, the tube 67 and 251, and the FET Brauner all sounded much closer to each other ,,,than that 20 year old recording with the U87 Ai
( understanding of course that it was the same time , same room and same recording chain, with only the mic's changing...)

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

The web site says all new Z Mods coming this fall so that will be interesting to see unfold ...

Maybe they'll take a page out of the BeezNeez playbook. That company offers its 87 clone in two body shapes, their own sort of generic mic shape and the more traditional look you'd expect an 87 to look like.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

You really can't go wrong with Audioscape. Would the EQ be more for guitar or vocals. If vocals, I'd encourage you to consider the V-Comp instead of an EQ. That box makes vocals ooze with character in a way that I've never heard a plugin of any type be able to do.

Thanks but since I already have a great analog Variable Mu Comp,, I am really thinking more of a 2 channel 2 Bus EQ. And although I can certainly expand my rack I am probably thinking more of a 1 U Solid State unit which would fit my current rack.

Currently I am looking at something like the Elysia xfilter 4 band Mastering Edition...

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Thanks but since I already have a great analog Variable Mu Comp,, I am really thinking more of a 2 channel 2 Bus EQ. And although I can certainly expand my rack I am probably thinking more of a 1 U Solid State unit which would fit my current rack.

Currently I am looking at something like the Elysia xfilter 4 band Mastering Edition...

Understood. I do know that Audioscape is working on a Sontec mastering eq clone. They originally planned on a 2021 rollout but the virus hit and upended things so I'm not sure where that is now. I'll shoot them an email and see if it's still in the works.