Making the action nice and low

[Gattsby]

My strings to be quite high on my guitar. I bought another one last week and it's action is really low. So I'm going to play with the other guitar's truss rod and saddle and stuff.

Any do's and don'ts...best strings etc which way on the truss rod to lower etc?

Thanks in advance

[fazool]

There are four different geometry factors at work here and you need to consider all of them (in the proper order)

Neck angle - for example, when it's dead flat and aligned to the top of the bridge
Neck relief - when fretted at 1 & 15, .006" clearance is seen at fret 7
Nut slot height - how high the strings are above the fret at 0/1
Saddle height - how high the strings are above the fret at 12

Don't measure action at 12 until you've accounted for the previous three items.

[cattzap]

I'd watch a few video's on the You Tube before you do this. It's not impossible to do but can be tricky. it will depend on exactly why your strings are so high. Could just be that your guitar needs a proper setup or could be that the neck may need to be removed and shimmed or shaved which that would not be a at home job to try.

A quick general rule I use is place a quarter under the big E at the 12th. If it touches like a feeler gauge your off to a good start. You might want to look up some specs. You want a certain string clearance at the 1st fret. and at the 12 or 17th. Different mfgs may have different specs.

String choice can also have a big effect on this. Heavier strings will pull more on the neck when tuned to pitch.

Go slow. Measure 12 times then cut. It can be difficult to put the white powder back onto the bottom of the nut and saddle.

In the case of my Yamaha, the neck happens to be dead flat which is bad. The truss rod is only a one way so all I can do is loosen it all the way and let the strings pull it. I've clamped it in a curve for a time but it went right back. A neck shim is probably what it will take. Some people might shave the frets down in the center of the neck but not me. My solution was to leave it alone and get a new guitar.

[jpjr50]

If your action I too high then the saddle would have to be shaved. However, have you measured the action? If yes provide your findings.

Truss rod adjusts neck relief not string action although the action may move depending on the adjustment made but overall won't bring it down.

[Fatstrat]

A "set-up" is about the cheapest service you can get from a luthier or a guitar store tech. Tend to run $30 to $50. Not trying to discourage you from trying yourself. But if you want to go on the safe side, it fairly cheap to have experienced people do it.

[DenverSteve]

Hello and welcome to the forum. You bought another... what? Same model/make or just another guitar? How high is the action? Is it just higher than the new guitar or stupid high? I believe a bit more information is needed. Photos would help as well of - bridge/saddle, neck/strings from the side, guitar from side showing neck to body attachment.

The short answer is above - I would take it to a tech/luthier and have a set up done.

[MC5C]

As said, if you don't know how to do a setup - which is all this is, at the end of the day - you can do more harm than good in an instant. Even experienced techs have been known to do harm, fix one thing when another is broken.

You start with a knowledgeable inspection of the guitar's current geometry, in particular the neck set, the bridge height, and the relationship between the two. The neck can have drifted, it's angle to the body could be wrong, and the strings high as a result. If the neck set is good, and the bridge height (not saddle height, presuming an acoustic flat-top here) is reasonable, you move to the neck. You first inspect and adjust the string height at the nut by fretting at the third fret and observing the string height over the first fret. Should be as near to nil as possible while retaining some discernable clearance. Next you check the relief, as suggested above you want clearance between the fret and the bottom of the string around .006" at the 6th or 7th fret while fretting at 1 and 14 (put a capo behind fret one makes this easy). You want no backbow, so some discernable clearance, and enough to stick a business card in is too much. You adjust by tightening or loosening the truss rod nut. With those two done you can look at the action. Normal practice is 1/16" between top of the fret and the bottom of the string measured at the 12th fret for the high E string, going up smoothly to 3/32" for the low E string. That works for most players on an acoustic. You set it by taking the saddle out and sanding the bottom to remove material. You remove twice as much at the saddle as you want to adjust for at the 12th fret. If your guitar is old and starting to show normal signs of the body and neck moving around under tension and age, you may have to start to look at surgery - shaving the bridge down, ramping string slots, resetting neck - you definitely want to consult an expert at that point, or accept that you might ruin the guitar. At the end of the day it's your guitar - working on it yourself can be very satisfying.

[Gattsby]

This exactly why I joined this forum, so much experience. The second guitar I bought was different from the first one. Second hand, so whoever owned it had it set up very well - it's a 'Vintage' dreadnought.

The other one is a Freshman FA1A electro acoustic, brand new. The strings were really high on it so I adjusted the truss rod and got them lower, but only a bit, hence my post. Although I only bought it because the action was so good...but I had a cheapy guitar (Encore) at home, so not a fair comparison.

I've only been playing a few months and it's been a steep learning curve, but i'm sick of avoiding songs with B flats and I want to play the full F so I thought I'd take a bit of time trying to set this up...then I wanted that bassy sound, hence my recent purchase.

I've read what you all posted, so I will go over that and have another attempt and report back...thank you all again, it's a big, big help.

[BradleyS]

I know there are probably many forum members that do there own set ups. I had given some thought of doing mine, until I watched a video of setup technician John LeVan of LeVan's Guitar Services. Think I will leave this job to the pros.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9ywORU5EUs

[Gattsby]

wow..thanks for posting that

[dneal]

Originally Posted by fazool

There are four different geometry factors at work here and you need to consider all of them (in the proper order)

Neck angle - for example, when it's dead flat and aligned to the top of the bridge
Neck relief - when fretted at 1 & 15, .006" clearance is seen at fret 7
Nut slot height - how high the strings are above the fret at 0/1
Saddle height - how high the strings are above the fret at 12

Don't measure action at 12 until you've accounted for the previous three items.

Good post.

I'll add that you shouldn't underestimate the value of getting the nut slot height correct. That's the key for easy playability (IMHO). You would be surprised how much saddle height you can actually play comfortably, when the nut slots are nice and low.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by Gattsby

. The strings were really high on it so I adjusted the truss rod and got them lower, but only a bit, hence my post.

You really. really need to get rid of the idea that the purpose of truss rod adjustment is to lower or raise the action.

Action height is altered by adjustment at the saddle and at the nut.

[jseth]

I would STRONGLY suggest that you find a great guitar technician and have him do a set-up on your guitar... tweaking and sanding theings eithout knowing what you're doing is a very fast way to screw things up totally!

As a possible point of interest, I have been playing guitar for 57 years, and have been a "Pro" for over 45 years... and I would NOT do the things you are talking about doing!

I have always been much more interested in actually PLAYING the guitar than in learning how to tweak the myriad of things that occasionally need tweaking...

And Murrmac is absolutely correct... adjusting the truss rod is NOT a way to "lower" your action; it is to ensure a proper neck relief... once that's been set correctly, and the guitar is "dialed in" by a knowledgeable tech, then adjusting the truss rod may be a "fix" for changes due to relative humidity and such...

Oh, and WELCOME to the Forum!

[gruuv]

Originally Posted by fazool

There are four different geometry factors at work here and you need to consider all of them (in the proper order)

Neck angle - for example, when it's dead flat and aligned to the top of the bridge
Neck relief - when fretted at 1 & 15, .006" clearance is seen at fret 7
Nut slot height - how high the strings are above the fret at 0/1
Saddle height - how high the strings are above the fret at 12

Don't measure action at 12 until you've accounted for the previous three items.

Originally Posted by BradleyS

I know there are probably many forum members that do there own set ups. I had given some thought of doing mine, until I watched a video of setup technician John LeVan of LeVan's Guitar Services. Think I will leave this job to the pros.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9ywORU5EUs

Bradley and fazool, these two posts have made this thread well worth the price of admission. Thanks to both of you!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jpjr50

…Truss rod adjusts neck relief not string action although the action may move depending on the adjustment made but overall won't bring it down.

If the relief is too great, it most definitely causes string action to be higher.

It may not be the main means of adjusting action, but it does have an effect on string action.

And if the nut slots are adjusted properly, and the saddle is the proper height, but the relief is too great, it would be the proper adjustment to lower action.







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