What microphones & how many are used in this

[AcousticDreams]

I was totally captivated with this most charming and super talented little girl, as she plays with a whole orchestra using just three strings. So I started this thread in my amazement. https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=626374

On a more serious note, on the recording side of this production...I was thrilled to hear great sound coming from a soloist versus the entire Orchestra.
So to continue with the fun...and possibly I will learn something as well I ask you:

*What microphone is being used for this little girl?
I ask this question...cause she is in front of the entire orchestra. You would think that she would get a ton of bleed from the other instruments...But that does not seem so and she gets clear presentation even when everything is going all at once. On occasion you will get a glimpse from the side. All I can make out it is silver bodied, a SDC and has vents on the side. And most likely a hypercardiod?

** I believe I see several schoeps at the beginning of the stage behind the conductor. But I also believe there are more mics used directly at various positions of the orchestra. And I also see several elevated mics at the back of the orchestra.

How they got this fantastic balance between the little girl soloist and the entire orchestra, in a big open room with no gobo's, is quite amazing.
My question is...how many mics do you count overall for the orchestra including the individual solo mics? And where do you see them placed? A fun exploration if you are up for it. Very hard for me to see all of the mics and locations.

[rick-slo]

Don't how one could answer either question from the video. The instrument is of course a Balalaika. Growing up my family had two of them (each a different size but neither anywhere close as big as the ones on the CD cover below). They can play pretty loudly.

I have this CD:

[j3ffr0]

Lot's of mics in this. Just rough guesses -- The silvery ones on some of the orchestra members look like AKG C451s to me. The one on the girl could be a Neumann KM184/183/185 or a Schoeps. Color looks darker like a Neumann to me, but hard to tell because it's from the back. Some of the other pencil mics on some of the other instruments look more like Schoepes. Any of them could be something else though -- there are a lot of mics out there.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I was totally captivated with this most charming and super talented little girl, as she plays with a whole orchestra using just three strings. So I started this thread in my amazement. https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=626374

On a more serious note, on the recording side of this production...I was thrilled to hear great sound coming from a soloist versus the entire Orchestra.
So to continue with the fun...and possibly I will learn something as well I ask you:

*What microphone is being used for this little girl?
I ask this question...cause she is in front of the entire orchestra. You would think that she would get a ton of bleed from the other instruments...But that does not seem so and she gets clear presentation even when everything is going all at once. On occasion you will get a glimpse from the side. All I can make out it is silver bodied, a SDC and has vents on the side. And most likely a hypercardiod?

** I believe I see several schoeps at the beginning of the stage behind the conductor. But I also believe there are more mics used directly at various positions of the orchestra. And I also see several elevated mics at the back of the orchestra.

How they got this fantastic balance between the little girl soloist and the entire orchestra, in a big open room with no gobo's, is quite amazing.
My question is...how many mics do you count overall for the orchestra including the individual solo mics? And where do you see them placed? A fun exploration if you are up for it. Very hard for me to see all of the mics and locations.

I will play. And offer some general thoughts and **** a bit ....

#1 Don't know specific brand of her mic or the other mic's... BUT I will shift and suggest it does not really matter in the overall context of what you are asking about and commenting on.... Other than it is obviously a good, probably high end-ish SDC,, and is either therefore either Cardioid, or Super ,or Hyper, again I would suggest that the specific Cardioid pattern may not really matter all that much either ??

#2. Don't know the overall mic count, looks to be 6 room mic's at the front of the stage ,, and then mics throughout the orchestra, likely for any and all solo or featured performance within the orchestra sound (for this girls and any other performances that night) and my guess is also for any instruments that are not as loud as the rest of instruments ????



I think the really great aspect, is the skill of the the front of house sound engineer/s in placing the mics and mixing the mics for the live sound, and I am guessing the recording mix engineer (guessing there are two) who obviously has great skill also, and is likely working directly off the mixing console and I am also guessing directly into Pro Tools .

Now the mix possibilities are numerous but IMO are more important than the specific brands of the mic's Seems like the girls sound is mono, and straight up the center (and could be raised just a few db ) and the rest of the orchestra is panned out to different degrees of left and right, which in and of itself, is going to allow the girls sound to come through the mix better .

Also I think there is some bleed from the orchestra in her mic because it seems to me when the orchestra stops and she solo's her sound becomes more clear, present, and defined . Which suggests to me it is not totally isolated, and why it could also be just a regular Cardioid pattern .. And or in the mixing, there could also be a modest Gate on her mic's channel, that backs down some amount of the orchestra sound and helps define her sound ?
In a nutshell I think the "magic" (as it were) is in the placement and mixing, more so than the specific mic's involved (although I am guessing they are on the higher end, lower self noise, and probably with flatter response )

Now as for the big open room Let's remember (in general) the bigger the room the less problematic reflections become (depending on surface) AND the most important observation is look at what is behind the orchestra !!!. It is fully TREATED (you know the thing some of us home recordists often want to ignore) They do not show the audience part of the room but given the performers side, I am guessing it is likely treated specifically for controlled sound reproduction also ...

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by KevWind

I will play. And offer some general thoughts and **** a bit ....

#1 Don't know specific brand of her mic or the other mic's... BUT I will shift and suggest it does not really matter in the overall context of what you are asking about and commenting on.... Other than it is obviously a good, probably high end-ish SDC,, and is either therefore either Cardioid, or Super ,or Hyper, again I would suggest that the specific Cardioid pattern may not really matter all that much either ??

#2. Don't know the overall mic count, looks to be 6 room mic's at the front of the stage ,, and then mics throughout the orchestra, likely for any and all solo or featured performance within the orchestra sound (for this girls and any other performances that night) and my guess is also for any instruments that are not as loud as the rest of instruments ????



I think the really great aspect, is the skill of the the front of house sound engineer/s .

more important than the specific brands of the mic's Seems like the girls sound is mono, and straight up the center (and could be raised just a few db ) and the rest of the orchestra is panned out to different degrees of left and right, which in and of itself, is going to allow the girls sound to come through the mix better .

And or in the mixing, there could also be a modest Gate on her mic's channel, that backs down some amount of the orchestra sound and helps define her sound ?

(in general) the bigger the room the less problematic reflections become (depending on surface) AND the most important observation is look at what is behind the orchestra !!!. It is fully TREATED

Superb observations KevWind!

I especially like your notes on a center mic versus the Left-Right panned orchestra.
For a long while I was interested in experimenting with a third center mic on my acoustic guitar for that very reason. I have heard this done and is certainly one of the defining reasons why Mid side(even though it is using only two mics..and simulating a third) might always seem pleasant to myself.

I am getting a great sound right now with two mics. And are afraid to experiment with a third do to possible added phasing problems. But because of your observation...I might just have to put it back into my list of future experimentation.

I think Doug Young has done some experiments with Center mic? (not including Mid-Side...but an actual Three mic set up) I wonder what his conclusions are?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Superb observations KevWind!

I especially like your notes on a center mic versus the Left-Right panned orchestra.
For a long while I was interested in experimenting with a third center mic on my acoustic guitar for that very reason. I have heard this done and is certainly one of the defining reasons why Mid side(even though it is using only two mics..and simulating a third) might always seem pleasant to myself.

I am getting a great sound right now with two mics. And are afraid to experiment with a third do to possible added phasing problems. But because of your observation...I might just have to put it back into my list of future experimentation.

I think Doug Young has done some experiments with Center mic? (not including Mid-Side...but an actual Three mic set up) I wonder what his conclusions are?

Yes the beauty of digital is you can record three track but later decide to use only two or one for that matter

Just a note of clarification though,, what is going on in that orchestra is IMO more like the live version of what many producers do in complex studio recording mixes and that is only record the acoustic guitar in mono and place it center or sometimes off center if there is a vocal in the center, and then pan other instruments out L&R

For me (and because I am almost alway doing a vocal ) I think the only time I would use three mic's on an acoustic would be for solo acoustic guitar recordings

Like this demo I did (shameless self promo showing off my new Furch ) One thing to be addressed with 3 mics is considering the sound hole

In this video the camera angle is funny but the LCD is in cardioid and is placed pretty much dead center between the two ribbons, slightly below the sound hole, and rotated down at about a 25 to 35 degree angle, and back maybe 18 inches (wanting to avoid sound hole boom).
And perhaps interestingly normally I use two mics and I usually run my two channel 2 Bus compressor in its' M/S Mode ,,,with the sides having a little more gain than the mid to enhance spread . In this recording they were pretty even I think

[AcousticDreams]

Congratulations on your new Furch Guitar!

And thanks so much for showing & explaining your mic set up. It does sound very natural and balanced!