Nickel vs Monel

[Robin, Wales]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread:

If you want that monel type timbre but without the "edge" try a set of pure nickel strings. They are slightly softer than monel (a nickel alloy) and that is reflected in the timbre.

[RJVB]

Monel timbre, you mean neutral sound? For me that just means that the wrap adds no (or the least possible amount of) colouring to the sound of the steel core: no other strings I tried sound so similar when playing the same note on the (wound) G and the plain B strings.

It's an interesting sound but in the end I've decided that I prefer brass (on my spruce+maple guitars). I had high hopes for those Monel silk-and-steels but in the end they gave even my boomy jumbo an overzealous archtop quality. Playing the instrument I'd like the basses I heard but on a recording they disappeared into the other voice(s) even quicker than on my archtop (strung with TI Plectrums). Too quickly, making a huge guitar sound like a mid-rangy smallish guitar.

[ballynally]

Originally Posted by RJVB

I wouldn't use the term "harsh", but "annoyingly metallic". Maybe Martin have found a way to reduce that in their strings (apparently they did too with their Eric Clapton signature set). The last set of Monel strings definitely needed a week before they lost the zing, and those were of a silk-and-steel design (custom order from Pyramid).

All different makes of Monel strings I have tried all felt rough under the fingers, too, as if they used a heavier gauge of wrap wire. AFAIK nickel is heavier than copper so a Ni-Cu alloy is probably heavier than the 80/20 brass (my reference). So not certain what explains that (but I regret not having accepted Pyramid's proposal to polish those strings).

In the end i prefer the Retros monels. They feel right. I thought i would prefer roundcore but both Pyramid and Newtone did not do it for me. The monels are indeed a tad rougher on the fingers than nickels except for my TI flats which i use on my guitars w a magnetic soundhole pickup f live gigs. The retros provide very good string separation and fundamental tones for some of my guitars. They seem to be very guitar specific. I love them on my Martin 000, not so much on my old Guild D25. Ive heared them on J45s and D28s. Both very good. Oh and my 1930s wee Kalamazoo K14 loves it..

[ballynally]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

You bring out a most excellent point Robin. Especially for a smaller company, it would be very to expensive to have manufactured in smaller numbers.

Most likely it is another company already standing formula for infused nickle that are making it for them. The higher price is and indication of its one off manufacturing difficulties combining with lower numbers of production.

Still, I am a sucker for good marketing. I am always interested in a new products claim. But for right now, until I hear numerous reviews to the contrary, I do not have $20 worth of interest.

For myself, Lower tension sets and their theory of equal tensions have not work for my style of playing. Still I know that there is always validity for any string dependent on a particular guitar and what it likes as well.

I have a set of Newtone Double wounds just waiting to try out on one of my guitars. Double wounds are also lower tension. Their concept is the opposite of New strings. They are suppose to start off like an old set of broken in strings. One of these days I will get around to trying them out. For now, I will stick with Newtone Master Class roundcores. While only 3% less tension...I still find Roundcores to be easier on the fingers and ring out sustain wise for longer.

But the best effect for easier on the fingers? = proper nut height & neck relief.

Because of the round core Newtone strings are a tad more flexible. One has to adjust the gauge to the guitar. And how the top is braced is also important.
One thing the Monels have in general is that they generate a strong fundamental tone but/ and also a mettalic shimmer on top. The fundamental in reality means less mid overtones compared to FB and especially 80/20.
The low E can be a tad boomy on the wrong guitar and also seem to stand rather separate from the other strings.
The Newtone monel lights start w 012- 052. I have them on several guitars and im struggling a wee bit w the low E, especially on my 000 Martin w light bracing. I have ordered Newtone nickels who start w 009 and offer 011 to 050. I will see how they compare to the thicker Monels. Both roundcore.

It is also important in relation to the guitars function and pickup system. It's delicate. It is basically specific finetuning.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by ballynally

One thing the Monels have in general is that they generate a strong fundamental tone but/ and also a mettalic shimmer on top. The fundamental in reality means less mid overtones compared to FB and especially 80/20.

A string maker explained to me that the hardness (or more specifically the metallicity index) of the wrap wire has a direct effect on the harmonic content of the sound a wound string will make. The harder the metal, the more fundamental the sound; the softer, the "richer" (more overtones). That's the probably reason why classical strings are almost all copper-wound (though according to him the best choice for sound quality would be tungsten, IIRC).

[ballynally]

Originally Posted by RJVB

A string maker explained to me that the hardness (or more specifically the metallicity index) of the wrap wire has a direct effect on the harmonic content of the sound a wound string will make. The harder the metal, the more fundamental the sound; the softer, the "richer" (more overtones). That's the probably reason why classical strings are almost all copper-wound (though according to him the best choice for sound quality would be tungsten, IIRC).

That makes sense.
Im still on the fence about Monels. I have settled on PBs for most of my playing years and they always seem to respond exactly as i expect. With Monels i sometimes love them and sometimes feel they lack something, can sound metallic and rather cold. They always cut though. I can understand why some people rave about them while other loathe them and cant wait to take them off. They are very guitar specific. I think this issue will never settle w me. Nice to have the option.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by ballynally

They are very guitar specific

Yes. They're often called "neutral" in tone, which really implies that they don't do anything to embellish or diminish particular traits of your guitar's own voice.

For me the neutrality comes from the fact that the winding seems to add (almost) no colouring of the core wire sound at all. IOW, Identical notes played on a monel-wound G and a plain B sound much more similar than I've heard with other wrap materials (muting all other strings of course).
As such I've tried to use a monel G to get a better transition from nicer-sounding lower wound strings to the plain trebles, but that made things worse for me (I would probably hate a plain wire G too). Like you, I ended up preferring PB, but not for the lowest 1 or 2 strings. There I really prefer the livelier sound you get from that bit richer harmonic content brass gives (better growl but also less double-bass-hoarseness higher up the fretboard).

[abn556]

I have been running Martin Monels on my 000-18 and my ‘63 LG-0. I quite like the Monels on these two guitars, but I am always willing to try something else. I stuck a couple of sets of the D’Addario NB in my cart and will grab them on my next order. I will try them on my J-45 Koa and the 000-18 to see how they sound.