1974 Sherry Brener/Hernandis Grand Concert

[jmat]

So hard not to get conflated into a broader discussion when talking about Jim Sherry. What a complex and irascible Chicago character! He is still at his shop, stop by and, if you are lucky, maybe you’ll get his droll diatribe regarding: “America doesn’t work anymore”. It is fluent as he has been practicing it for a while

Anyway you asked about your guitar. Yes, I played them. They were ok, not at the prices Jim sold them for but it sounds like you got a good price on a useful tool – especially if it plays well. My brother in law owns one and he can produce a fair amount of music with it.

I have to wonder the about the Brazilian. Jim bought a lot of wood back in the day, my recollection is that a lot of it was tone wood other than Brazilian.

[Klunkerbill]

Sorry for the late update and thank you all for the information. I finally got around to taking some cell phone pics. Sorry for the delay. The pick marks on the top were very severe, so I cut a golpeador using fairly thick pick guard material based on the old Herco design. It didn't seem to change the tone and it doesn't look like Trigger anymore. I'm loving this guitar so far, but that's not saying much. My instructor really likes it, so that's a step in the right direction. I've been playing some other 'Fauxmirez' guitars and I haven't come across anything in the ($350) price range that had such materials and build quality. I like the look of it, too, with the old orangish lacquer finish. They really did ripoff Ramirez as far as some of the styling. I saw a '74 1a Ramirez and it was exactly the same rosette. I can see why many get so upset at these Japanese guitars pretending to be Spanish. The 'lawsuit' copies of American electrics from Japan during the same period got people hot for awhile, but that didn't keep (some of) them from being fine guitars.







http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...l/photo2-4.jpg

[bohemian]

"So hard not to get conflated into a broader discussion when talking about Jim Sherry. What a complex and irascible Chicago character! He is still at his shop, stop by and, if you are lucky, maybe you’ll get his droll diatribe regarding: “America doesn’t work anymore”. It is fluent as he has been practicing it for a while

Anyway you asked about your guitar. Yes, I played them. They were ok, not at the prices Jim sold them for but it sounds like you got a good price on a useful tool – especially if it plays well. My brother in law owns one and he can produce a fair amount of music with it.

I have to wonder the about the Brazilian. Jim bought a lot of wood back in the day, my recollection is that a lot of it was tone wood other than Brazilian.
__________________
Multiple guitars including a 1979 Fender that needs a neck re-set "


Much of Jim's wood was passed off as Brazilian. He also claimed to be the principle supplier of Brazilian to Ramirez, which he was not.


Klunkerbill

If you like the guitar, trim the strings, bag the cheap tuners, replace with some Schallers and go for it. Looks good.


Fender that needs a neck rest.. that's great.. I'll assume four screws ? : )

[flagstaffcharli]

There was a Garcia model 1 on CL earlier today for $180. Advertised as solid spruce/rosewood. It disappeared faster than I could look it up. I ended up with the Estruch guitar & will write about it soon. But the whole story with these misleading labels is kind of fascinating.

[jmat]

Originally Posted by bohemian

". Fender that needs a neck rest.. that's great.. I'll assume four screws ? : )

Unless I can first find a bridge sized hand plane...or a cricket match. Or perhaps I just take it to Jim for some old world craftsmanship...


Klunker - looks great, play up!

[madhatter]

Originally Posted by Vognell

Soooo.... have you ever played one? Specifically, the Grand Concert or 1A?

there are a bunch of people that have a hard-on for Jim Sherry. They keep regurgitating the fact that there never was a guy named Hernandis making guitars, calling it a marketing gimmick.

Now, let's stipulate that a luthier named Hernandis never existed.

Glad we got that over with. The guitars are excellent guitars and Jim Sherry has excellent craftsmen, should you need a repair. I never played a Grand Concert (or even saw one) but I sold S/B classicals in the 70's and they were well built and sounded good. The Hernandis line sounded better than the Garcia line, but they were all nice guitars. I bought a Grade 1 and have played it side by side with guitars handmade in Spain and guess what, no comparison.

So the people who tag these as student/beginner guitars probably don't gig but just comment on message boards. The Hernandis Grade 2's and above can be easily miked, have a great sound, very nice slim playable neck. In other words, nothing from preventing them being used in a concert setting.

Hernandis Grade 1
Made by Japan's great artisan T. Kurosawa - Tokyo, K. Yairi - Gifu.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf5ODcularI

Hernandis Grade 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY4XrDZFlVE

Hernandis Grade 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCYH_KRAJ8

[madhatter]

Originally Posted by bohemian

FWIW There was no "Hernandis" This was one of the many fictitious names Brener invented to market modest quality Japanese guitars.

Brener was busted by the feds for misrepresenting the origin of his guitars hence the huge ingredient label. He was always based in Chicago, not Madrid.

Brener was the reincarnation of the original carny huckster.

Don't believe anything you read on Sherrry Brener website.

Do a search on the net .. stories abound.

In spite of your request to not go into Sherry Brener's business practices and the fakery and the modest quality of over hyped, misrepresented guitars, given the posts following the opening post... there are those that apparently have absolutely no clue about him/them or the guitars. Perhaps they have a right to know.

I was around when these were introduced back in the 70's.. The Carmel Guitar Shop carried them along with other low end guitars such as Tatay.
They also had real Ramirez.. also the re-labeled ones from Sherry Brener over which Segovia brought legal action. The gold label units.

Bottom line, modest guitar..You paid what these are worth if in excellent condition.... but considering it has the grenadillo fingerboard which was assigned to the 2s and 3s.. more than I would pay.

If you enjoy it .. that's all that counts.

This post, for those reading it, is pure nonsense, except for the last sentence. S/B imported extremely nice guitars, better than a lot of instruments you will find today in the $5K - $6K range. The comments about fakery and all that is just plain nonsense perpetrated by some group. I too was around in the 70's, so Bohemian doesn't have a leg to stand on just because of his/her age. BTW, a well aged Hernandis is a beautiful thing.

Rather than listen to usedless dribble, listen to a Hernandis and be the judge. Here's a Grade 2... three notches down from a Grand Concert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY4XrDZFlVE

[brucefulton]

Originally Posted by madhatter

This post, for those reading it, is pure nonsense, except for the last sentence. S/B imported extremely nice guitars, better than a lot of instruments you will find today in the $5K - $6K range. The comments about fakery and all that is just plain nonsense perpetrated by some group. I too was around in the 70's, so Bohemian doesn't have a leg to stand on just because of his/her age. BTW, a well aged Hernandis is a beautiful thing.

Rather than listen to usedless dribble, listen to a Hernandis and be the judge. Here's a Grade 2... three notches down from a Grand Concert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY4XrDZFlVE

This is all, like, 1970s. Times change, guitars change. I don't know any serious guitar students today going through degree programs who are seeking these instruments. For the same reasons, very few concert players use Ramirez 1a guitars either, anymore. It's a different world and demands and preferences change. Nuff said.

[madhatter]

Originally Posted by brucefulton

This is all, like, 1970s. Times change, guitars change. I don't know any serious guitar students today going through degree programs who are seeking these instruments. For the same reasons, very few concert players use Ramirez 1a guitars either, anymore. It's a different world and demands and preferences change. Nuff said.

OP had gotten a Hernadis and wanted to know ... then we had to hear the spiel about James Sherry, who is a really nice guy!

[jmat]

Originally Posted by madhatter

OP had gotten a Hernadis and wanted to know ... then we had to hear the spiel about James Sherry, who is a really nice guy!

I am comfortable with the notion that there will be evitable spiel about Jim. I knew him reasonably well and appreciate his multi-dimensionality. There are many positives: fun to talk to, takes an interest, provokes in a (to me) engaging way, had/has energy, respected by his employees. I bought a Garcia 3 from Jim and had fun playing it.

But not everyone can muster positive feeling. I have heard both Brune and Jack Cecchini, the Chicago jazz player who started DePaul’s guitar program, be very critical of Jim. The issue goes beyond creating a Hernadis brand. Jack was especially critical of Jim’s apparent practice of attaching ‘Spanish’ labels into guitars made in Japan. There was apparently some federal fine associated with this and Jim had to create new/accurate labels. Beyond that, Jim felt the need to do things like create a ‘Marcelino Barbaro’ brand, which is very close the actual luthier Marcelo Barbaro, and also create the ‘Spanish Pine’ tone wood. For many it was all too much copy writing lifted from a turn of the century wonder tonic.

You like Jim and many people do. Fair enough. Many people were turned off, including leaders in the Chicago area guitar community, and the spiel will be spieled until Jim’s name fades from memory.

[madhatter]

Originally Posted by jmat

I am comfortable with the notion that there will be evitable spiel about Jim. I knew him reasonably well and appreciate his multi-dimensionality. There are many positives: fun to talk to, takes an interest, provokes in a (to me) engaging way, had/has energy, respected by his employees. I bought a Garcia 3 from Jim and had fun playing it.

But not everyone can muster positive feeling. I have heard both Brune and Jack Cecchini, the Chicago jazz player who started DePaul’s guitar program, be very critical of Jim. The issue goes beyond creating a Hernadis brand. Jack was especially critical of Jim’s apparent practice of attaching ‘Spanish’ labels into guitars made in Japan. There was apparently some federal fine associated with this and Jim had to create new/accurate labels. Beyond that, Jim felt the need to do things like create a ‘Marcelino Barbaro’ brand, which is very close the actual luthier Marcelo Barbaro, and also create the ‘Spanish Pine’ tone wood. For many it was all too much copy writing lifted from a turn of the century wonder tonic.

You like Jim and many people do. Fair enough. Many people were turned off, including leaders in the Chicago area guitar community, and the spiel will be spieled until Jim’s name fades from memory.

yes, and Wonder Bread builds strong bodies 12 different ways. From what you write it looks like Jim was more a pioneer than a criminal. How many spanish sounding guitars with spanish looking labels are now made in China?

[Mickey_C]

In the $300 range I wouldn't fret about it too much... but:

Usually when seriously studying the instrument, final approval of a study instrument is in the hands of the teacher and you didn't mention any input from there. Most conservatory grade guitars I know of are $800 - $1200 range, but many teachers and schools offer discounts and buying programs, and some of the former student guitars are even offered for the range you mentioned, and there are even luthiers that have special instruments for schools. They are not however brazilian... but without fail they meet the standards required. I had one such instrument, and I also sold it for about that price when done. It wasn't much to look at, but it was a marvelous guitar.

Did you talk to your school/teacher about this guitar and other options?

[clarencecarter]

I have a Hernandis Grand Concert. I didn't pay much for it. I am aware of the scandal though in the decades I have been buying and trading guitar I have only seen one without a label declaring assembeled in Japan. Well there was one but the seller said it fell out but even he said it was labeled Japan. Having those disclaimers out of the way....my favorite luthier called me to check out a Ramirez 1a that one of his customers was having serviced to ready it for sale. We took turns playing the Ramirez and the Hernandis. Our conclusiin was the Ramirez was louder but the Hernandis had better tone and was easier to play. Since I don't ever expect to ever play a large concert hall and the Ramirez was going to cost a little more than $4,000 more than I could resell the Hernadis for I passed. If you are concerned about resale value or want the extra volume buy a Ramirez.

[clarencecarter]

I have a Hernandis Grand Concert. I didn't pay much for it. I am aware of the scandal though in the decades I have been buying and trading guitar I have only seen one without a label declaring assembeled in Japan. Well there was one but the seller said it fell out but even he said it was labeled Japan. Having those disclaimers out of the way....my favorite luthier called me to check out a Ramirez 1a that one of his customers was having serviced to ready it for sale. We took turns playing the Ramirez and the Hernandis. Our conclusiin was the Ramirez was louder but the Hernandis had better tone and was easier to play. Since I don't ever expect to ever play a large concert hall and the Ramirez was going to cost a little more than $4,000 more than I could resell the Hernadis for I passed. If you are concerned about resale value or want the extra volume buy a Ramirez. I will say I only use Ramirez guitar strings on all classical guitars. I use the Medium tension with the carbon fiber g string.