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  #76  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:01 PM
PANDAPANDELO PANDAPANDELO is offline
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Tone Update:

Just by changing the installation of the Pickup, from a wrong tape to a good putty, the tone have improved a lot. Check it out, folks!

Then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o-EvTq_wTw (Kiss From A Rose)

Now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfMGS9YJWgw (It Must Have Been Love)

I don't know if I mixed it good (just changed from Pro Tools First to Garage Band, because of Catalina compatibility problem, and I'm working on my learning curve), but I've heard a big improvement on my live song. I think I can make it REALLY better with an Alix/Felix.
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2005 Martin HD28 with K&K Trinity;
2012 Cordoba C10;
Grace Design Felix 2;
Sennheiser MD441;
DPA 4099 Core;
DPA 4018L;
Bose L1 Compact;
QSC Touchmix 8;
QSC K10.2;
Neumann u87ai;
Neumann KMS105;
Neumann KM184 (matched pair).

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http://www.rodrigopandelo.com
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  #77  
Old 01-15-2020, 06:33 PM
strumming strumming is offline
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Default Initial ToneDexter experience

For what it's worth, I recently purchased a ToneDexter (TD) and I've had great success with it. It was very easy to "train" my guitar sound for two different guitars through a small condenser microphone. It made a night and day difference toward a more natural guitar sound for both guitars.

Your post got my attention because I'm considering purchasing the Grace Felix so I can mix the trained sound from the TD and a DPA 4099 clamp-on microphone into a single output to my pedalboard. BTW, This is similar to James Taylor's setup except I believe he uses the ToneBone two-channel pre. I'm optimistic that this will result in a very natural live acoustic sound. I'll post my experience once I get this setup. Happy tone hunting! :-)
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  #78  
Old 01-17-2020, 06:46 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
Tone Update:

Just by changing the installation of the Pickup, from a wrong tape to a good putty, the tone have improved a lot. Check it out, folks!

Then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o-EvTq_wTw (Kiss From A Rose)

Now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfMGS9YJWgw (It Must Have Been Love)

I don't know if I mixed it good (just changed from Pro Tools First to Garage Band, because of Catalina compatibility problem, and I'm working on my learning curve), but I've heard a big improvement on my live song. I think I can make it REALLY better with an Alix/Felix.
If the recordings are comparable then that is a very worthwhile improvement. It also sounds as if it would blend well with other instruments.

Good work and nice playing.
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  #79  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:23 PM
PANDAPANDELO PANDAPANDELO is offline
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Yes, Shufflebeat!

That's exactly the same recording: Guitar into LR Baggs ParaDI, into the Touchmix8.

I am getting happy with the results!

Thank you for the compliments!
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Rodrigo Pandeló

2005 Martin HD28 with K&K Trinity;
2012 Cordoba C10;
Grace Design Felix 2;
Sennheiser MD441;
DPA 4099 Core;
DPA 4018L;
Bose L1 Compact;
QSC Touchmix 8;
QSC K10.2;
Neumann u87ai;
Neumann KMS105;
Neumann KM184 (matched pair).

http://www.youtube.com/rodrigopandelo
http://www.rodrigopandelo.com
http://www.instagram.com/rodrigopandelo

São Paulo/Brazil
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  #80  
Old 10-28-2020, 09:31 PM
NickityNick NickityNick is offline
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I know it's sacrilege... but I'm selling my Grace ALiX after getting the Tonedexter. ALiX is an absolute diamond of a surgical analog eq and pre. But it just couldn't do what the Tonedexter did for my Trance Amulet M... which already sounds pretty great on its own (same pickup as Doug Young's in his YouTube demo of the TD).
I took several impressions with the TD using a Sennheiser e614, and then scrolled through until I found one that sounded best. Then I A/B'd the TD against the ALiX, with friends listening through my PA in another room. Unanimous Tonedexter. I asked what the "other one" (ALiX) was missing. They all gave their suggestions while I tweaked... then A/B'd again. And again- unanimous Tonedexter. Comments were "that one sounds more, woody, creamy,... even analog (?!)
I was pretty shocked.
Running TD now with effects loop--> Session DI--->Big Sky Reverb--->Ditto X2 Looper into a Fishman SA330x.
Couldn't be happier.
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  #81  
Old 10-29-2020, 01:38 AM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
My main goal with an outboard eq pedal is to do some "on the fly" changes, just to fight feedback, when notch filter is not enough.

I would dial the sound that I like on Touchmix, then control feedback and make minimal changes according to the room, live. It might be overkill, but that'd help me a lot... and since I already have the ParaEQ, that would not be a problem.

Thank you all for the replies!

I might go with the Tonedexter!
Here's my 2 cents... One big vote for the Alix!

I've been using the Alix since day one, and I don't agree with anybody that says that in a live situation the Tone Dexter will better it. I play in quite a few different rooms, with different resonant frequencies, and crowds that come and go. I need to change a lot on the fly, and the Alix is very easy to drive once you get the hang of it. It's just a great sounding instrument preamp. I pair mine with a volume pedal, Keeley Delay Workstation (combo reverb/delay) and a Boss Tuner. And that rig gets the job done every time!
I like it so much a few weeks later I went out and bought a Felix for when I uses two sources for my reso amplification. I also own a Touchmix and although it's powerful little mixer it's way more difficult to adjust on the fly.

I just love the sound of the Grace preamps, I've used them for not only acoustic guitars, but both electric guitars and basses, and my Wurlitzer piano.

The other day I was trying to find an EQ setting that would would help my electric guitar get a tone I've been chasing for years. I used the Felix which is basically a 2 channels version of the Alix. And I was sweeping both available settings of the mid control, along with using the HPF filter, and when I found the frequency I played non stop for 5 hours because it sounded so good!

I've also used my Grace Felix as a standalone 2 channel mixer with just a bit of reverb in the insert and it sounded great.

Another thing, sound engineers love the signal I send from both the Alix and the Felix. The transformer coupler DI out sounds fantastic. And having the accessory 9V DC out on the back is great to power FX!

With the Alix, you need to read the manual, otherwise you will have no idea what the dip switches do, and what the jumpers on the internal board do, etc. But if you put the time in, and really learn to use it, once you get to gigs it will be extremely easy to drive.

The Alix is once of the best preamps for acoustic ever made for single channel use! And it's analog!

my daily work board



my resonator concert board


Last edited by rockabilly69; 10-29-2020 at 01:43 AM.
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  #82  
Old 11-06-2020, 08:51 PM
NickityNick NickityNick is offline
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Truth, right here.
While the Tonedexter may give you a more realistic "guitar in front of you" sound... sometimes you need a musical surgical eq. And sometimes you need a guitar to sound 10 feet tall. Grace excels at all of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Here's my 2 cents... One big vote for the Alix!

I've been using the Alix since day one, and I don't agree with anybody that says that in a live situation the Tone Dexter will better it. I play in quite a few different rooms, with different resonant frequencies, and crowds that come and go. I need to change a lot on the fly, and the Alix is very easy to drive once you get the hang of it. It's just a great sounding instrument preamp. I pair mine with a volume pedal, Keeley Delay Workstation (combo reverb/delay) and a Boss Tuner. And that rig gets the job done every time!
I like it so much a few weeks later I went out and bought a Felix for when I uses two sources for my reso amplification. I also own a Touchmix and although it's powerful little mixer it's way more difficult to adjust on the fly.

I just love the sound of the Grace preamps, I've used them for not only acoustic guitars, but both electric guitars and basses, and my Wurlitzer piano.

The other day I was trying to find an EQ setting that would would help my electric guitar get a tone I've been chasing for years. I used the Felix which is basically a 2 channels version of the Alix. And I was sweeping both available settings of the mid control, along with using the HPF filter, and when I found the frequency I played non stop for 5 hours because it sounded so good!

I've also used my Grace Felix as a standalone 2 channel mixer with just a bit of reverb in the insert and it sounded great.

Another thing, sound engineers love the signal I send from both the Alix and the Felix. The transformer coupler DI out sounds fantastic. And having the accessory 9V DC out on the back is great to power FX!

With the Alix, you need to read the manual, otherwise you will have no idea what the dip switches do, and what the jumpers on the internal board do, etc. But if you put the time in, and really learn to use it, once you get to gigs it will be extremely easy to drive.

The Alix is once of the best preamps for acoustic ever made for single channel use! And it's analog!

my daily work board



my resonator concert board

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  #83  
Old 11-08-2020, 12:02 PM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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I've had both the felix and the tonedexter.
Both are good..but I sold the tonedexter.
About 6 weeks after I bought it. It just didnt
Measure up in live performance. The felix
does. Crisp clean and surgical. Probably
Never sell it.
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  #84  
Old 12-05-2020, 03:36 PM
NickityNick NickityNick is offline
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Same. Kept my Alix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
I've had both the felix and the tonedexter.
Both are good..but I sold the tonedexter.
About 6 weeks after I bought it. It just didnt
Measure up in live performance. The felix
does. Crisp clean and surgical. Probably
Never sell it.
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  #85  
Old 12-06-2020, 11:15 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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I'd have to say although given a choice
Between the 2 I'd go with the felix.
The overall intent of these two boxes
Is different. The TD is an ir generator .
Designed to do just that. Once a preset is
Made there is a global eq that can be applied.
This in itself I dont think can compare
To the eq and the pre on the felix.
So if the preset you make at home
with the TD is really good then when you
get to the loud bar gig If it doesnt
cut it the eq on the TD may not
be enough to get you what you want.
Maybe it will.. I find the felix generally is.
And I have a stomp if I feel I need
To use an IR. I usually dont. So its relegated
to fx and presets for acoustic guitar,mandolin,tenor guitar and tele..
Again I dont think comparing a tone
Dexter to a felix is a fair comparison.
As they are really 2 different creatures.
With the td switching presets between mandolin and guitar and then tweaking the eq a bit to ear just didnt get me a good sound
For both instruments. In a live band situation.The stomp felix combination does and then
Some.

Last edited by varmonter; 12-06-2020 at 11:22 AM.
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  #86  
Old 12-13-2020, 10:58 PM
gfirob gfirob is offline
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This seems to be an old argument. If you play in a bar or very loud venue with a band, the subtle nature of your expensive guitar is not very useful. You need to cut through the competing frequencies of the band and the noise in the bar. Don’t use a Tonedexter.

But if you have spent a lot of money on a prestige instrument, and the sound of that instrument is what you want the audience to hear (assuming you are in a sonic environment where they can hear it) then the Tonedexter is for you.

We are really talking about an apples and oranges situation. If it is a battle of the frequencies, get the biggest, loudest cuttingest tool you can—though in this case there is no point in using a particularly good guitar because no one will hear it. If you are in a quiet enough venue, a venue where people are going to hear that expensive guitar, get a Tonedexter.
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  #87  
Old 12-14-2020, 12:16 AM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfirob View Post
This seems to be an old argument. If you play in a bar or very loud venue with a band, the subtle nature of your expensive guitar is not very useful. You need to cut through the competing frequencies of the band and the noise in the bar. Don’t use a Tonedexter.

But if you have spent a lot of money on a prestige instrument, and the sound of that instrument is what you want the audience to hear (assuming you are in a sonic environment where they can hear it) then the Tonedexter is for you.

We are really talking about an apples and oranges situation. If it is a battle of the frequencies, get the biggest, loudest cuttingest tool you can—though in this case there is no point in using a particularly good guitar because no one will hear it. If you are in a quiet enough venue, a venue where people are going to hear that expensive guitar, get a Tonedexter.
Yes it's an old argument but it comes down to what you want to hear, and the approach you want to take to get there. So although I'm sure you're as passionate about your opinion as I am mine, I totally disagree, and think you're either/or scenario is too simplistic.

I for one do think it's an apples to apples comparison, as which piece of equipment will get the job done. But an apples to orange way of approaching live sound, as in do I want to do it IR/digital or analog.

Although I use the Alix to control problem rooms, I play a house gig two days a week where it's as good as you could possible want for sound, with respectful audiences, and I play some pretty high end instruments, and I would give the edge to to a good pickup and Alix or Felix, in my live situation over a Tonedexter all day long.

Soon as you plug into a PA you're a slave to it, and I would rather work with a proper analog preamp and EQ to dial my guitar into the room, not a sampled digital representation of what my guitar sounded like in a different room. With the Felix, I can have a high end mic on the guitar and a great pickup for support for whatever I think the mic might be lacking and I can do it on the fly.

One of the venues that I'm house musician at hosts the Sundance music showcases for some of the best up and coming talent in the country. And besides playing at these showcases, many times after my performance, I sit in the audience and listen to all of these solo top notch acoustic players, and more and more of these players are showing up with Grace preamps on the their fly boards! And I have yet to see a Tonedexter at any of these shows. The only other gear discussed here that I've see regularly, are Radial preamps, they seem to popular with touring pros.

And I always ask the pro sound guys that mix these events about what pieces of equipment that people show up with, and what they like best to work with, and more than one has mentioned Grace.

But differences in opinion are what make the world go round! And really what it comes down to is, does the equipment you're using work for what you want to do?

I'm sure their are people using Tonedexters that are out there getting great sounds, I just prefer what I do, and the sounds I'm getting even in the most intimate setting.

And I think this disagreement will always be there at the highest levels of professional musicians!
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  #88  
Old 12-14-2020, 06:59 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfirob View Post
This seems to be an old argument. If you play in a bar or very loud venue with a band, the subtle nature of your expensive guitar is not very useful. You need to cut through the competing frequencies of the band and the noise in the bar. Don’t use a Tonedexter.

But if you have spent a lot of money on a prestige instrument, and the sound of that instrument is what you want the audience to hear (assuming you are in a sonic environment where they can hear it) then the Tonedexter is for you.

We are really talking about an apples and oranges situation. If it is a battle of the frequencies, get the biggest, loudest cuttingest tool you can—though in this case there is no point in using a particularly good guitar because no one will hear it. If you are in a quiet enough venue, a venue where people are going to hear that expensive guitar, get a Tonedexter.
Yes it's the reason I'm looking at cheap guitars sort of an ed Sheeran approach to
Playing live. Something small that plays well.
Unplugged sound not so important. When I play quiet venues where people might listen
And the true nature of my more pristine guitars can be heard...I'll use a microphone.
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  #89  
Old 12-14-2020, 09:40 AM
gfirob gfirob is offline
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The most-working musician I know, busy all the time (live streaming all the time now) who plays with a band, almost always performs in a band setting with some 80's Japanese Martin clone, maybe even made of ply. And this guy is a collector with some really excellent guitars.

I always thought the Tonedexter was a breakthrough for people with excellent guitars who wanted to hear their true sound amplified without the feedback issues of a microphone. Microphones are great if you have a level of control (and competency) that allows you to use them. But too many times we show up at venues we have never seen before or with limitations forced by the circumstances. It is really hard to beat the Tonedexter in circumstances like this—if you are playing solo or in maybe in a duo.

Part of this might be guitar vanity—my friend who would rather play with his plywood guitar doesn't care if the audience is not impressed with the instrument. But many of us spend a lot to have a prestige instrument and want it to be heard while performing and this is where the Tonedexter shines.
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  #90  
Old 12-14-2020, 09:45 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Here's my 2 cents... One big vote for the Alix!

I've been using the Alix since day one, and I don't agree with anybody that says that in a live situation the Tone Dexter will better it. I play in quite a few different rooms, with different resonant frequencies, and crowds that come and go. I need to change a lot on the fly, and the Alix is very easy to drive once you get the hang of it. It's just a great sounding instrument preamp. I pair mine with a volume pedal, Keeley Delay Workstation (combo reverb/delay) and a Boss Tuner. And that rig gets the job done every time!
I like it so much a few weeks later I went out and bought a Felix for when I uses two sources for my reso amplification. I also own a Touchmix and although it's powerful little mixer it's way more difficult to adjust on the fly.

I just love the sound of the Grace preamps, I've used them for not only acoustic guitars, but both electric guitars and basses, and my Wurlitzer piano.

The other day I was trying to find an EQ setting that would would help my electric guitar get a tone I've been chasing for years. I used the Felix which is basically a 2 channels version of the Alix. And I was sweeping both available settings of the mid control, along with using the HPF filter, and when I found the frequency I played non stop for 5 hours because it sounded so good!

I've also used my Grace Felix as a standalone 2 channel mixer with just a bit of reverb in the insert and it sounded great.

Another thing, sound engineers love the signal I send from both the Alix and the Felix. The transformer coupler DI out sounds fantastic. And having the accessory 9V DC out on the back is great to power FX!

With the Alix, you need to read the manual, otherwise you will have no idea what the dip switches do, and what the jumpers on the internal board do, etc. But if you put the time in, and really learn to use it, once you get to gigs it will be extremely easy to drive.

The Alix is once of the best preamps for acoustic ever made for single channel use! And it's analog!

my daily work board



my resonator concert board

Your Intermountain Acoustic Music concert a while back made me rethink my own search for decent sound on stage. Seriously.

I've sold my Tonedexter and assuming that COVID allows us to play at all this year, it'll be using my Schertler Unico to blend a K&K and a Shure Beta 56a (a supercardioid dynamic drum mic) to feed FOH.

Eventually I'll buy a Felix.
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