MicQuest 2015

[MarvinLee]

Hello Good People,

I'm hoping someone can recommend a good large diameter condenser mic for me. I'm including a quick youtube video to give you an idea of the application. For reference, the video is shot by using an Audio Technica AT3525 running straight into a Sony XDCAM F3 video camera. It certainly works well enough, but I am looking for something a bit warmer and.... how to describe it.... a bit wider?

I realize there are better ways to record this, but I am trying to find the ultimate "one microphone" very fast acquisition of this type of musical scenario.

On a side note, I called my local music store, who apparently has several condenser mic's in stock, but was informed that microphones were "too personal" to demo. I explained to them that I was planning on buying local, based on their stock (and a demo) but they didn't budge.

Oh well, I guess it's just you good people and an online retailer.

I've been reading about mics for a few days and have been considering some of these mics (in no particular order) -

Blue Bluebird
Blue Baby Bottle
M-Audio Sputnik
Rode K2

Any thoughts or suggestions on what the "one" mic will be for me?

Many thanks to the AGF brain trust.

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by MarvinLee

Hello Good People,

I'm hoping someone can recommend a good large diameter condenser mic for me. I'm including a quick youtube video to give you an idea of the application. For reference, the video is shot by using an Audio Technica AT3525 running straight into a Sony XDCAM F3 video camera. It certainly works well enough, but I am looking for something a bit warmer and.... how to describe it.... a bit wider?

Hello Marvin, It would help to know if you have an upper limit cost-wise. There's a real range among the mics you've listed as prospectives and of course there's virtually no limit to what one can spend on a high end mic (Brauner, Neumann, etc.). That said, one of the warmest LDCs I'm familiar with is the Miktek CV4. I don't have anything post ready with mine but here's a link that, despite being a youtuber, still demonstrates the mics natural warmth. It's a tube mic so takes a few minutes to warm up but it's even better in the flesh than the link demonstrates.

[MarvinLee]

Was hoping to keep it under $1k. That video sure sounds nice. Would you happen to know if there was any post processing on it, or are we hearing basically the raw acquisition?

EDIT: Just looked up the Miktek CV4. Small stretch, budget-wise, but would be worth it. Even in a youtube video, it just sounds "better". Thanks for the input, that's exactly the type of info I was seeking.

[Fran Guidry]

You're talking about using a single mic, mono in other words. I'm not sure how you hope to find a "wider" mono device.

"Warmer" is a highly subjective term but if you mean reduced highs and/or more prominent lows and low mids I would recommend spending 30 days or so trying different mic positions. With a cardioid mic, closer placement gives a boost to low frequencies. It's often the case that you can change the frequency response of the mic by rotating it either horizontally or vertically or both. And different positions relative to the source(s) will give noticeably different results as well.

Then there's the whole issue of post production - EQ and other treatment can change the sound considerably.

I'm somewhat of a broken record on this topic, but the difference between mics is much less than the difference between ways of using the mic.

Listening to your recording I definitely don't hear any lack of "warmth" in the form of excess highs. To my ear you're getting a terrific recording.

Are you by any chance comparing your recordings to commercially mastered material?

Fran

[Doug Young]

Yeah, most stores don't want to have you breathing and spitting into a mic and then returning it for other people. There are online retailers who will arrange for demo mics, but it's probably most common for ones that are pricier than your budget. I can't listen to your video right now, but "wide", assuming I know what you mean, generally requires stereo - 2 mics. But people don't usually do that with vocals. You can also add some space and "width" with reverb or other production techniques.

[MarvinLee]

Hey Fran,

Thanks for the comments. Ultimately, I'm trying to create a recording technique (for the most basic of video acquisition) that will be able to quickly capture solo acoustic recordings. The goal is to try and have the least amount of post-production possible. I wouldn't say the target is commercial music production so much as trying to create a recording of sufficient quality that it won't be a distraction (if that makes sense).

Thus the single mic theory.

Think modern day WPA recordings, if you will. Basically, what would John Lomax use today if he were documenting music?

EDIT: After thinking about it a minute, I guess you are right.... I am comparing it to modern commercial recordings. Thanks for that epiphany.

[MarvinLee]

Doug.... can you elaborate (just a bit) on the "other production techniques" you mention? Don't need a tutorial, just a direction for research. Many thanks.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by MarvinLee

Doug.... can you elaborate (just a bit) on the "other production techniques" you mention? Don't need a tutorial, just a direction for research. Many thanks.

Well, you can simulate stereo in various ways, adding delay to one side, using different EQ on each channel - many DAWs have some sort of stereoizer plugin. There are vocal processors that can add the effect of multiple people singing - you've probably seen harmonizers, but you can also create non-harmonized doubling effects, which might sound "wider". You probably hear some of this sort of extreme processing on some pop records, but I'm guessing they'd sound too fake for the sound I think you're going for. Just some nice simple room reverb might help, tho. Using only a single mic for everything, any effect you put on your vocal has to also sound good on your guitar and vice-versa, so I think that limits you to pretty basic things (reverb) as well. But a simple room reverb can add some space without even being obviously "reverby". Keep in mind, I haven't listened to your video yet, so I'm shooting in the dark. You may already be doing this.

[MarvinLee]

Many thanks Doug, very helpful! I have wondered about attempting some insertion of effects in the mic path. With the ultimate goal being simplicity, I think the quest has become the right mic.

Thank you very much for helping me understand what I am asking for. Being in a far-flung region, I do not have ready local access to the wealth of knowledge that is contained in this forum. Your comments are very helpful in giving me understanding of what I seek.

Perhaps, by wide, I am describing something a bit more esoteric than just stereo? Given that modern amplification has many options, perhaps it might amount (somewhat) to what I am playing this back on?

Either way, excellent food for thought and greatly appreciated comments.

EDIT: As per your comment... I am NOT adding any effects to this recording. Just straight into a video camera. I am now wondering what the implications of the environment might be to the "wide" sound that I am asking about. In other words, I wonder how a quality mic (traditionally used in a very controlled studio environment) might respond to a natural environment that creates the effects that you describe (reverb, eq, ect.) The mysticism of location, if you will. I recall hearing stories about such things with some classic rock recordings. That's kind of an exciting and motivational thought. Thank you!

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by MarvinLee

Was hoping to keep it under $1k. That video sure sounds nice. Would you happen to know if there was any post processing on it, or are we hearing basically the raw acquisition?

EDIT: Just looked up the Miktek CV4. Small stretch, budget-wise, but would be worth it. Even in a youtube video, it just sounds "better". Thanks for the input, that's exactly the type of info I was seeking.

According to Aaron Lee, the producer/engineer on Gretchen Peters Music Fog session, not much processing beyond a little reverb. In my experience this mic has a silky quality and is still very balanced from top to bottom. There's no obvious boost in the low to low mid-range. I was able to A/B the CV4 against an AKG 414, Neumann TLM 103 and a couple of other similarly priced LDCs. Frankly, it blew the other mics away both in terms of signal strength and sound quality, particularly in terms of old fashioned tube warmth. In fairness the Miktek CV4 should be compared to other tube mics. I did test drive a Peluso tube mic that was comparable in quality but a lot more expensive.

[MarvinLee]

Does anyone have any info on this production? Identify this mic?

This sound of this is what I'm talking about. It is quite lush.

Anyone have any experience with mics that have similar qualities?

[runamuck]

It looks like a Neumann U47.
Start saving.

[-ST-]

Hi Marvin,

Curious why you have specified a large diameter condenser mic. Have you consider other types of microphones - like a ribbon microphone?

Originally Posted by MarvinLee

Hello Good People,

I'm hoping someone can recommend a good large diameter condenser mic for me. I'm including a quick youtube video to give you an idea of the application. For reference, the video is shot by using an Audio Technica AT3525 running straight into a Sony XDCAM F3 video camera. It certainly works well enough, but I am looking for something a bit warmer and.... how to describe it.... a bit wider?

I realize there are better ways to record this, but I am trying to find the ultimate "one microphone" very fast acquisition of this type of musical scenario.

On a side note, I called my local music store, who apparently has several condenser mic's in stock, but was informed that microphones were "too personal" to demo. I explained to them that I was planning on buying local, based on their stock (and a demo) but they didn't budge.

Oh well, I guess it's just you good people and an online retailer.

I've been reading about mics for a few days and have been considering some of these mics (in no particular order) -

Blue Bluebird
Blue Baby Bottle
M-Audio Sputnik
Rode K2

Any thoughts or suggestions on what the "one" mic will be for me?

Many thanks to the AGF brain trust.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by MarvinLee

Does anyone have any info on this production? Identify this mic?

This sound of this is what I'm talking about. It is quite lush.

Anyone have any experience with mics that have similar qualities?

I finally got to listen to your video. Very nice, sounds just fine to me. This video, the one you like, has some reverb on it. Also notice his mic placement. He's getting more presence from his guitar - you have to deal with your resonator being louder of course, but his guitar seems louder relative to his voice than your track. It could be partly the mic, but it could also be placement.

There's also a difference in style, which partly shows up the reverb. He's punching out notes more both with his voice and guitar, and those peaks trigger a reverb "ping", that shows off the effect. You have a very smooth, even style (which I like more, myself), that might not create quite that same reverb sound. Do you have a reverb plugin or effect you can try?

[MarvinLee]

I am ignorant to all things ribbon. Perhaps you could specify a few well regarded ones that I might look into?