Guitars "opening up" - How to defend the claim?

[frankmcr]

Never make a claim unless you know you can defend it.

[Jaxon]

all i have to go on is memory and I don't remember any of my guitars sounding any different than they sounded yesterday or last month or last year or any difference in the last 20 years

Credulity is a person's willingness or ability to believe that a statement is true, especially on minimal or uncertain evidence. Credulity is not necessarily a belief in something that may be false: the subject of the belief may even be correct, but a credulous person will believe it without good evidence.

[Russ C]

Good helpful comments.
The mass of wood (and anything that relates directly to that, like acoustics) changing over time is absolutely provable. Many people are willing to put their ignorance on display for others to learn from sadly.

[Skeezix]

The response is great. However, one problem you face is that any used guitar salesperson out there can claim that a guitar has opened up, hoping to increase the chance of a sale, regardless of the seller’s true belief or validity of the claim. Hear it too many times under dubious circumstances and skepticism is sure to follow.

This guitar has had the opportunity to develop a seasoned voice and increased responsiveness…

[kizz]

I'll be honest and say that if I read that answer from a seller I wouldn't be convinced, even that you have a point about the variables. As a few others mention, you need to have full evidence for your claims, otherwise it can appear worse.

[Silly Moustache]

I have made a video about "Opening up" / and/or "breaking in".

It is IMHO impossible to prove scientifically, but surely that applies equally to other aspects of "quality"

How can a professional wine taster, or you and I, say that one wine is better than another ?

Was Shakespeare better than Marlowe?

Was Constable better Hockney or Dali better than Picasso?

None of these can be quantified "scientifical" but we humans and our relatively limited senses (compared to some other species) have something called "perception".

To some that might be "Emperor's New Clothes, whilst to others the matter might be "pearls before swine".

I am quite convinced in the improvement of guitar tones over time.

I had bought three guitars between 2016, and 2020, and all three have markedly improved tonally ....to me!

I also have a very expensive guitar that I bought , used, in 2014, and while I'm often complemented on its tone, I think it still has some way to go!

It is all personal perception and preferences - I heard a joke recently : "My Grandpa once told me that it is good that we all have different preferences - as if not , everyone would have wanted your grandma!


Here's my Video FWIW :

[Bob Womack]

If you need the word of a luthier, look no further than the latest Taylor Wood & Steel. Andy and Bob give their take on the timeline of a guitar breaking in, right HERE. They take it from five minutes to fifteen years.

Bob

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I have made a video about "Opening up" / and/or "breaking in".

It is IMHO impossible to prove scientifically, but surely that applies equally to other aspects of "quality"

How can a professional wine taster, or you and I, say that one wine is better than another ?

Was Shakespeare better than Marlowe?

Was Constable better Hockney or Dali better than Picasso?

None of these can be quantified "scientifical" but we humans and our relatively limited senses (compared to some other species) have something called "perception".

To some that might be "Emperor's New Clothes, whilst to others the matter might be "pearls before swine".

I am quite convinced in the improvement of guitar tones over time.

I had bought three guitars between 2016, and 2020, and all three have markedly improved tonally ....to me!

I also have a very expensive guitar that I bought , used, in 2014, and while I'm often complemented on its tone, I think it still has some way to go!

It is all personal perception and preferences - I heard a joke recently : "My Grandpa once told me that it is good that we all have different preferences - as if not , everyone would have wanted your grandma!


Here's my Video FWIW :

I’m 100% with Mr. Moustache - I’m also convinced that a guitar’s tone will change over time, but I accept that others may not take that view. It’s all down to one’s own individual perception.

As always, the standard disclaimer applies - IMHO. However, I realise that YMMV, and I’m cool with that.

[Mr Bojangles]

I have a 1968 Gibson Hummingbird that I bought used in 1973. It sounds the same to me today as it did back then.

Or course, my hearing has changed quite a bit over the years, also my playing style, and my memory isn't what it used to be, at least I don't think so.

[hubcapsc]

I’m also convinced that a guitar’s tone will change over time, but I accept that others may not take that view.

They must not play guitar ...

As I read through this thread I was cleverly thinking to myself
that "my guitar will open up as soon as it gets broken in", then
I got to Silly Moustache's post.

-Mike

[DrunkUncles]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Reminds me of the Paul Simon lyric, "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Aint that the truth!!!

[musicman1951]

In terms of useful at work, the Bob Taylor quote is as good as any.

It's been my experience that anyone who poses a question rudely has absolutely no intention of listening to what you have to say or ever changing their mind.

The change/opening is sometimes very subtle and the expectation that it will happen in no way influences my instrument purchase. If it doesn't sound great now I'm not interested in what will happen down the road.

Some fine players have an astonishing lack of aural perception when it comes to anything subtle. Some of those players believe strongly that if they don't perceive it you're imagining it. It doesn't stop them from being fine humans, just not someone you want to debate.

[Pippin]

Does guitar 'opening up' mean 'improvement in sound/ tone/ voice (or whatever you call it); or simply 'change in sound' with time?

IMO, 'change' definitely happens. Period. Is it an improvement? Perhaps more like a personal preference.

Pippin

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

It's been my experience that anyone who poses a question rudely has absolutely no intention of listening to what you have to say or ever changing their mind.

Agreed - the moment someone declares those with opinions which differ from their own to be ‘idiots’, they render themselves unworthy of even a reading, let alone a response. Politeness and good manners cost nothing.

[Gasworker]

“Opening up” apparently is a trigger word for a person to use the word “idiotic” that’s unfortunate. In my personal and humble opinion there are more people on the AGF who want to hear subtle changes in tone than can actually hear them. In the olden days I could justify selling and buying new guitars based solely on tone when the real truth was, I only wanted new things. I am GAS free for years now. I don’t know know if my guitars have opened up but I like them anyway. If you can hear subtle changes that’s pretty cool in my opinion but also a little bit of a curse.