Cycling gearheads question: where do you get your component upgrades?

[Neil K Walk]

My bike is new enough that buying another isn't in the cards but I'd like to start swapping out components as they begin to wear out. I'm having a hard time finding the exact Shimano parts I want though and I'd prefer not to shop through ebay. What are some reputable online retailers?

FYI: I'm looking for a Shimano Deore M4100 1x10 (11-46t) groupset for my 3 year old Trek Marlin 7. I know that the current Marlin 7 ships with those but mine is older and I don't want to take a bath in the Trek trade up program.

[Dirk Hofman]

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/us/en

https://www.jensonusa.com/

https://www.backcountry.com/
Which is the same as: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/

And I always look for stuff on the Pinkbike Classifieds: https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/

[imwjl]

I'm partial to local shops who contribute to our IMBA chapter where some offer discounts to volunteers.

An online with far from me shops Universal Cycles has been great. They ship from their stock and direct from major distributor QBP.

I mostly try to stay away from upgrades and start with mid and upper mid-level stuff. I break fancy parts just as easy as more basic. I've been on trips and even at home can't find parts you'd think would be in stock.

You got me on how fancy my new bike is but it was bought with a specific goal and to address age issues. Otherwise I learned the hard way that your bike engine is most important but I do go premium on tires and more than once on wheels.

I also watch for demos and NOS stuff on sale.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

FYI: I'm looking for a Shimano Deore M4100 1x10 (11-46t) groupset for my 3 year old Trek Marlin 7. I know that the current Marlin 7 ships with those but mine is older and I don't want to take a bath in the Trek trade up program.

Do you need the whole groupset? Things that wear out for me are cassettes, if I'm bad and don't keep the chain clean, and replace it when it stretches. Suffice it to say that with the price of a new X01 cassette, I don't do that anymore. Also brake pads, rotors, maybe a front chainring on occasion...but I've never replaced a groupset due to wear. I guess you're going for an upgrade overall?

Don't know much about the set you're looking at. Maybe it's just available on complete builds and that's why it's hard to find online? You can get the cassette (for example) at Mike Bikes which is a good shop here in the bay area: Shimano Deore CS-M4100 10 Speed Cassette, 11-42t

I just went to the shimano page and started looking for each of the individual components, which seem readily available: https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/produ...ore-m4100.html

Colorado Cyclist, a VERY reputable and long-time store has the SLX set: https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shimano-slx-groupset I don't see anything lower in the hierarchy anywhere as a groupset. This article shows a ton of them at the bottom and compares them all: https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buy...-need-to-know/

This is probably way more than you want to spend, but for me and several folks I ride with, the sweet spot for price/performance on groupsets is SRAM GX. Bulletproof, works really really smoothly, and has a fantastic range of gears. Not too heavy. https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/gs-gx-1-b2

But I'm sure SLX is great as well, we just don't get a lot of Shimano groups around her for whatever reason.

[imwjl]

@neil be careful that you don't spend 110% or more on a few parts than the bike is worth. Especially so if the bike isn't through axle, not boost or a triple crank.

The derailleur you have probably handles a bigger cassette so just that and going to 2x or 1x gearing might be a modestly priced and reasonable way to go if you want more performance from it.

Not all the crazy growth in bike riders are going to stick with it so it won't be long before your local craigslist and Facebook Marketplace have newer standard bikes for sale if a new bike is out of reach.

If you are partial to Trek, on a recent trail work session with Trek I saw what will probably be next generation Marlin or Roscoe or something similar that to me answers any shortcomings - the prototype was through axle, wide range 1x, modern bar/stem, and dropper. It was not bare metal or white so could be a close to production bike.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Do you need the whole groupset? Things that wear out for me are cassettes, if I'm bad and don't keep the chain clean, and replace it when it stretches. Suffice it to say that with the price of a new X01 cassette, I don't do that anymore. Also brake pads, rotors, maybe a front chainring on occasion...but I've never replaced a groupset due to wear. I guess you're going for an upgrade overall?

Don't know much about the set you're looking at. Maybe it's just available on complete builds and that's why it's hard to find online? You can get the cassette (for example) at Mike Bikes which is a good shop here in the bay area: Shimano Deore CS-M4100 10 Speed Cassette, 11-42t

I just went to the shimano page and started looking for each of the individual components, which seem readily available: https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/produ...ore-m4100.html

Colorado Cyclist, a VERY reputable and long-time store has the SLX set: https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shimano-slx-groupset I don't see anything lower in the hierarchy anywhere as a groupset. This article shows a ton of them at the bottom and compares them all: https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buy...-need-to-know/

This is probably way more than you want to spend, but for me and several folks I ride with, the sweet spot for price/performance on groupsets is SRAM GX. Bulletproof, works really really smoothly, and has a fantastic range of gears. Not too heavy. https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/gs-gx-1-b2

But I'm sure SLX is great as well, we just don't get a lot of Shimano groups around her for whatever reason.

I'm not looking to break the bank or push the limits. Deore seems to check the boxes though I've been looking at Microshift too. Right now I'm running an Acera rear groupset and it's not quite up to the demands of blue XC trails; it's been ghost shifting on long climbs and the chain has been slapping even with a narrow wide on the crank. I also feel like I need a 46t. Otherwise on the rail trails I'm good. Slow - but good.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

I'm not looking to break the bank or push the limits. Deore seems to check the boxes though I've been looking at Microshift too. Right now I'm running an Acera rear groupset and it's not quite up to the demands of blue XC trails; it's been ghost shifting on long climbs and the chain has been slapping even with a narrow wide on the crank. I also feel like I need a 46t. Otherwise on the rail trails I'm good. Slow - but good.

For ghost shifting the absolute first steps are check chain and cassette wear followed by derailleur alignment.

IIRC, most of those Marlins are triples or a double and purposely friendly gearing because they're a family, teen and recreational use product. A friend who got the newer 46t cassette was just spinning silly and it made no sense until he re-did it as a 30t 1x. If you have a triple it's probably a 24t low in front. Even a 3x touring setup would be more like 24t front and 34 or 36 rear.

If you put a clutch derailleur on back and still have a triple or only a 30t front you'll be getting chain slap. What the clutch type really does is stop how often the chain just falls off or your dropping a chain while in flight.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

I'm not looking to break the bank or push the limits. Deore seems to check the boxes though I've been looking at Microshift too. Right now I'm running an Acera rear groupset and it's not quite up to the demands of blue XC trails; it's been ghost shifting on long climbs and the chain has been slapping even with a narrow wide on the crank. I also feel like I need a 46t. Otherwise on the rail trails I'm good. Slow - but good.

Makes sense. I'm just not seeing it as a groupset anywhere but eBay.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by imwjl

If you put a clutch derailleur on back and still have a triple or only a 30t front you'll be getting chain slap. What the clutch type really does is stop how often the chain just falls off or your dropping a chain while in flight.

I’m wondering why running a 30t (or any size chainring) would result chain slap? The correct chain length and the clutch should eliminate that for any size front chainring, no?

I’ve literally never dropped a chain or had chain slap issues running 28 or up to 32 narrow/wide. I can’t just be that lucky…

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I’m wondering why running a 30t (or any size chainring) would result chain slap? The correct chain length and the clutch should eliminate that for any size front chainring, no?

I’ve literally never dropped a chain or had chain slap issues running 28 or up to 32 narrow/wide. I can’t just be that lucky…

My apologies. I mis-typed. Actually, I had the chain drop - but only once and on a power stroke up a steep climb. It was because of a ghost shift that was probably due to my derailleur (Acera shadow with no clutch) being slightly out of adjustment. If anything, the 32t narrow-wide has been the biggest game-changer right ahead of tubeless tires running lower pressure. I need to put on my magnifiers and see if maybe the cassette is starting to wear.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I’m wondering why running a 30t (or any size chainring) would result chain slap? The correct chain length and the clutch should eliminate that for any size front chainring, no?

I’ve literally never dropped a chain or had chain slap issues running 28 or up to 32 narrow/wide. I can’t just be that lucky…

It's only been my hard tails - steel Honzo, plastic Farley - that have still had chain marks on paint with a clutch derailleur. It's more an issue with the smaller 30t. I will still hear the steel on steel with the hard tail Deore poor man's 1x, but not on the dual suspension bike. Rocks and some landings are still much for the Shimano clutch types.

I'm certain Neil's Marlin is a 3x bike where that small 24t inner ring is always going to have the chain very close to the stays.

The big thing for him to be aware of with chain skip or shift issues on a 3 year old bike that gets used is wear (chain, cassette, rings) and derailleur alignment. It occurs fairly often that people replace derailleur or do things they consider an upgrade that doesn't get rid of problems from a worn chain and/or gears.

Edit: I think hearing the chain move and seeing the evidence is more a Shimano issue than SRAM because of the way SRAM and Shimano are different. Even if you take that cap off and tighten up the Shimano clutch they don't hold same when they've had a real lot of use. They start barely holding but I still like their stuff a lot.

[Neil K Walk]

Perhaps the crankset is the issue. When I converted my 3x to a 1x I used an old crankset that was also a 3x but was able to remove the old rings. Then I bought a Fifty Fifty 32t narrow wide and put it where the old middle ring used to be. I also installed a new 9 speed chain with a master link. The stock crankset on the Marlin was riveted together so I couldn’t install the narrow wide; the crank off my old bike uses bolts. I tried to align the derailleur as best I could but the middle of cassette is where the ghost shifting seems to happen.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

Perhaps the crankset is the issue. When I converted my 3x to a 1x I used an old crankset that was also a 3x but was able to remove the old rings. Then I bought a Fifty Fifty 32t narrow wide and put it where the old middle ring used to be. I also installed a new 9 speed chain with a master link. The stock crankset on the Marlin was riveted together so I couldn’t install the narrow wide; the crank off my old bike uses bolts. I tried to align the derailleur as best I could but the middle of cassette is where the ghost shifting seems to happen.

The alignment tool isn't too expensive but friends have them so I usually visit them with a 6 pack. It's not much labor if you go to a shop.

There are inexpensive cranks marked for single speeds or 2x that can have a bash guard but generally give good chain line for 1x conversion. A shop I like tries to stock that FSA or similar crank and 11 speed NX that uses Shimano type hub. He does a lot of fix ups or refreshes at a price that is rational for a used bike.

Don't mistake me for saying don't do upgrades as much as watch what you spend, and be aware of doing upgrades of drivetrain parts when you might have a wear or chain line issue. If your bike is a few years old a good sized spend won't get you modern geometry I consider more important than parts.

Ghost shifting in cogs you use a lot can mean the wear issue I'm bringing up. Here's my recipe. Own a chain wear tool or be good at measuring. Don't wait too long to replace a chain. That gets you a few thousand more miles out of your gears. In that realize at some point and especially with narrow/wide and 9 speed and newer you need to replace chain, cassettes and chain ring(s).

If you really love your frame and wheels that time to replace cassette and chain ring(s) can be a good time to do either or the wide range Deore 10 speed or a NX setup.

There are things I like about SRAM and Shimano but for MTB it's really hard to beat the XT shifters that do multiple gears both ways and most of their brakes - especially XT brakes.

Long ago you had to be using the upper tier parts for enthusiastic riding. That's just not the case anymore.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by imwjl

@neil be careful that you don't spend 110% or more on a few parts than the bike is worth. Especially so if the bike isn't through axle, not boost or a triple crank.

The derailleur you have probably handles a bigger cassette so just that and going to 2x or 1x gearing might be a modestly priced and reasonable way to go if you want more performance from it.

Not all the crazy growth in bike riders are going to stick with it so it won't be long before your local craigslist and Facebook Marketplace have newer standard bikes for sale if a new bike is out of reach.

If you are partial to Trek, on a recent trail work session with Trek I saw what will probably be next generation Marlin or Roscoe or something similar that to me answers any shortcomings - the prototype was through axle, wide range 1x, modern bar/stem, and dropper. It was not bare metal or white so could be a close to production bike.

That’s interesting. I like the direction they’re going with the Marlins. Mine has the modern geometry and internal routing access for a dropper post so I’m happy building on it even if the paint is all scratched up! If I ever do upbike I think I’d probably go the carbon route with the Procaliber 9.6.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

That’s interesting. I like the direction they’re going with the Marlins. Mine has the modern geometry and internal routing access for a dropper post so I’m happy building on it even if the paint is all scratched up! If I ever do upbike I think I’d probably go the carbon route with the Procaliber 9.6.

If that vintage, it's not out of line to do some upgrades but you want to know why you have the chain skip/ghost issue regardless. Also keep in mind you pretty much can't ever beat the components value with a new bike.

A friend and some acquaintances engineered that race bike you like, and an acquaintance I really enjoy did the graphics. They're great fun people, totally passionate about what they do, and bad *** riders.

Their MTB engineering team built a section of trail near home in May and it was fun in a lot of ways. Riders a mix of love and hate over the project. It was to purposely add a expert section needing all the muscle and balance you've got. Thus the love or hate.