Fishman Rare Earth blend burning batteries quickly after install

JonnyBGood · #1 11-25-2018, 10:29 AM

I have been testing a Fishman Rare Earth Blend recently on a temporary install basis (cable out of the soundhole).

I decided to go for a permanent install and my guitar tech recommended shortening the cable between pickup and jack as it is very long, to make for a tidier installation.

When I collected the guitar from my guitar tech I was surprised (so was he) to discover the pickup was putting out a very low output. He had completed the install a few days previously and had of course tested it at the time, it was fine then.

He suggested the batteries might simply have died, and as they were a cheap make and quite old he had a good point. I bought some new, decent brand batteries on the way home and sure enough the pickup was fine once more (a quick battery test confirmed the ones I had taken out were dead flat).

Four days later and now the brand new batteries are dead too. I do not leave my guitar plugged in and have used it plugged in maybe 5 hours or so since installing them, Fishman quote 100+ hours for this pickup up.

I am no electrics expert but I suspect a mistake in the soldering of the jack socket that leaves the pickup permanently on - does this sound likely?

Any suggestions for what the problem might be?

sdelsolray · #2 11-25-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

...
I am no electrics expert but I suspect a mistake in the soldering of the jack socket that leaves the pickup permanently on - does this sound likely?
...

I would investigate this possibility first, as it is likely the reason for the problem.

Howard Emerson · #3 11-25-2018, 12:44 PM

Jonny,
Did you purchase the pickup brand new?

If so then did your tech, upon shortening the wires, absolutely rewire the factory supplied jack as originally shipped?

HE

JonnyBGood · #4 11-25-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Jonny,
Did you purchase the pickup brand new?
If so then did your tech, upon shortening the wires, absolutely rewire the factory supplied jack as originally shipped?

HE

Yes it was brand new and my tech says he rewired it (then same jack) precisely the same way. I have just messaged him and he is happy to take it apart and check at no cost and actually refund my petrol costs to get to him if there is a short of some sort. I'm hoping it *is* a wiring issue as if the pickup is at fault I am guessing the warranty may be void due to the rewiring.

BluesKing777 · #5 11-25-2018, 05:26 PM

It would have to be the wiring, wouldn't it? You think it was going flat quickly before you had it rewired?

But I have had the battery in mine for so, so long that I am going to change it in a minute just because I'm tired of waiting for it to go flat with (very) occasional use since I bought some other soundhole pickups! I mention this because you may have a dud pickup - I could leave mine plugged in for a month and it would still work, I reckon...

BluesKing777.

Howard Emerson · #6 11-26-2018, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Yes it was brand new and my tech says he rewired it (then same jack) precisely the same way. I have just messaged him and he is happy to take it apart and check at no cost and actually refund my petrol costs to get to him if there is a short of some sort. I'm hoping it *is* a wiring issue as if the pickup is at fault I am guessing the warranty may be void due to the rewiring.

Jonny,
Fishman is very, very reasonable with their expectations regarding their products and how they're used. Just because a pickup is made with temporary installation as an option doesn't preclude it from being installed in a more 'permanant' fashion.

An email to Fishman with pictures of the wiring at the jack, and a description of the issue will, in all likelihood, result in a quick solution.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

JonnyBGood · #7 11-26-2018, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Jonny,
An email to Fishman with pictures of the wiring at the jack, and a description of the issue will, in all likelihood, result in a quick solution.

That's a good tip thanks - I'll get my guitar tech to take a photo of the jack wiring just in case he cannot see the problem and I need to contact Fishman. Good to hear their customer support is well thought of.

jonfields45 · #8 11-26-2018, 07:20 AM

I've soldered more than few Fishman/Switchcraft Switch Jacks. I have found on occasion the solder lug length in the manual did not match the jack and I had to solder the wires by noting the order of the lugs, not the length of the lugs. It is not hard to do wrong IMO. Here is the manual for the jack:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...jFLRGlnSy1GZlE

It is best to take a multimeter and make sure you know which lug is which before soldering.

JonnyBGood · #9 11-26-2018, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I've soldered more than few Fishman/Switchcraft Switch Jacks. I have found on occasion the solder lug length in the manual did not match the jack and I had to solder the wires by noting the order of the lugs, not the length of the lugs. It is not hard to do wrong IMO. Here is the manual for the jack:

Thanks Jon. Looks a little different to the instructions for my model (though maybe just different manual layout, I don't know):
https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u...tion_guide.pdf

jonfields45 · #10 11-26-2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Thanks Jon. Looks a little different to the instructions for my model (though maybe just different manual layout, I don't know):
https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u...tion_guide.pdf

It looks the same to me, but it's not about the instructions. I think it is a relatively easy one to solder wrong. Another possibility is the heat from de-soldering and re-soldering damaged the Switch Jack and its switch is stuck on. I have one in my parts box and that one looks pretty much like the diagram, but I've seen one in the past where the lugs were not as easy to tell apart by length.

JonnyBGood · #11 12-13-2018, 02:33 PM

Update: my guitar tech re-soldered the jack, following the Fishman wiring diagram, but the problem remains. I contacted Fishman explaining all this, and they sent me a copy of the wiring diagram.... so I've just emailed back pointing out I already have one as I had explained to them previously.

My guitar tech suggested trying another jack but this is getting frustrating. My guitar has been out of use now for several weeks, it takes 4-5 days to see if the batteries have run down after each rewire, so I've just left my guitar with him rather than travel back and for.

Maybe something has shorted within the pickup itself rather than the jack?

jonfields45 · #12 12-13-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Update: my guitar tech re-soldered the jack, following the Fishman wiring diagram, but the problem remains. I contacted Fishman explaining all this, and they sent me a copy of the wiring diagram.... so I've just emailed back pointing out I already have one as I had explained to them previously.

My guitar tech suggested trying another jack but this is getting frustrating. My guitar has been out of use now for several weeks, it takes 4-5 days to see if the batteries have run down after each rewire, so I've just left my guitar with him rather than travel back and for.

Maybe something has shorted within the pickup itself rather than the jack?

My next step would be a new Switchjack as suggested by your tech. The guts of the Switchcraft Switchjack are quite complex for such a small mechanical device and soldering may have burnt through one of its internal insulators leaving it shorted on. There is really no way for the pickup to cause this failure. If the Switchjack was working right, there would be no power going to the pickup for it to consume.

hotroad · #13 12-13-2018, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

My next step would be a new Switchjack as suggested by your tech. The guts of the Switchcraft Switchjack are quite complex for such a small mechanical device and soldering may have burnt through one of its internal insulators leaving it shorted on. There is really no way for the pickup to cause this failure. If the Switchjack was working right, there would be no power going to the pickup for it to consume.

Do you know that if the guitar or pickup is left plugged in to the amp or if any cord is plugged into the end pin, the battery is in use

JonnyBGood · #14 12-14-2018, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

My next step would be a new Switchjack as suggested by your tech. The guts of the Switchcraft Switchjack are quite complex for such a small mechanical device and soldering may have burnt through one of its internal insulators leaving it shorted on. There is really no way for the pickup to cause this failure. If the Switchjack was working right, there would be no power going to the pickup for it to consume.

Right, thanks Jon.

JonnyBGood · #15 12-20-2018, 07:50 AM

At last, resolved.

My guitar tech took out the jack, tested it and it was fine. The only other thing he could think of was a rogue/bare wire inside the cable, so he stripped back the cable in front of the jack and sure enough there was a tiny strand of wire shorting out the circuit.

After cutting a few inches off the cable and rewiring the jack everything seems to be working fine, we are now on day 6 with the current batteries so hopefully that is it!