Unknown songwriter making video, posting on YouTube a good idea?

[FrankHudson]

We're picking up into a side conversation here I think.* If I read the OP right, she's a beginning performer who has had her development as stage performer interrupted by the current virus crisis.

My (albeit, I'm but an observant outsider) view of the current music industry is that I wouldn't encourage a performer near the beginning of whatever career they'll have (like Winifred) to make a record in a professional studio that soon. I doubt she's in a genre that can develop a sizeable streaming revenue without continuing on her current performance track and working out her style there and how she wants to present herself and her songs first.

If I'm missing something there, others with more experience in the current scene can make their case, and I'll step aside for their important first hand experience.

I reiterate what I suggested for feedback from the more experienced: I think making videos of a cheap and cheerful variety in the current situation could let Winifred start to self-audit her performance style and repertoire, and the exercise of choosing which ones to post on YouTube or the like could help her practice more about how she wants to present her act and songs. Secondarily she might get some useful feedback (and learn how to throw out the Internet heckler noise). That's my reading of where she's at.

What say you, more experienced ones?


*Jim1960's point may be irrelevant to Winifred right now, but I appreciated considering his point on home recording vs studio for those seeking recording results rather than performing.

Also Silly M and Glenn's posts are great posts about the current YouTube scene for them (and others in similar positions) performing and putting themselves out there in genre's often spoken about on this forum.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by catdaddy

Thanks for your insights Jim! Yours is a perspective that I hadn't considered, and a much needed caveat. I personally don't know anyone doing home recording that has invested anywhere near the $60K that you mention you've spent, but if you've done it then I must concede that others have as well. As such, then going the professional studio route could prove less expensive in the long run.

One of the reasons some of us have invested so much in gear is because we weren't warned about the journey of small steps that can leave you broke in the end. What I mean by that is many people make these kinds of jumps... the $100 interface to the $200 interface to the $500 interface... etc. So by the time you get to the $3000 interface that makes you happy, it wound up costing you $5000 because of all the small steps you took getting there. I've done that with interfaces, with preamps, and with microphones. I'm pretty sure all the gear I bought in my first 10 years is gone. I've either sold it or have given it away (I used interfaces as my example because if I used microphones I'd depress myself).

Originally Posted by catdaddy

My own personal experience has been that after almost 50 years of home recording I probably have yet to reach the $10K level of expenditure.

My current mic locker represents well over $10k of investment. That does not include all the mics I no longer have. Those d*mn small steps again. Some may have noticed that I warn people in this forum about that fairly often. I figure everyone doesn't have to repeat my mistakes.

Originally Posted by catdaddy

I don't know the total number of songs that I've recorded in that time, but I would estimate it to be easily no less than 200, which means that each of those songs on average cost me about $50 to produce at home. If the cost of professional studio time is $35 per hour (as Winfred mentioned), then that might be less expensive than home recording depending on the efficiency of the studio and the artist involved. For myself, the pro studio would've ended up being a lot more expensive since I typically spend multiple hours of studio time for each song as I work out different arrangements and try various production techniques which would have been "on the clock". But regardless of cost, the biggest downside for me using a pro studio for all those years would have been all the countless times I would have missed the fun of playing and experimenting on the spur of the moment in my own studio.

Yeah, there's a lot of moving mental parts involved in this. It took a long time for the home tech to become on par with the studio tech ...at least from a quality attainable pov. I think the tools exist to pull it off now but that doesn't mean someone can plop down $5k on a home studio today and be pushing out radio quality material any time soon. There's a learning curve that requires some real dedication. When I put my first home studio together, I was way more interested in performing than learning how to record. I didn't have enough free time in my life to put enough time into both, so the studio part suffered. At some point I knew I was never going to do as much performing as I used to and that freed up more time to learn studio craft.

Knowing what I know now, if my goal was strictly to be a performer, I'd skip the home studio thing and record in a pro studio. I'd want all my time to go into developing my performance craft. I caught the home studio bug because when I recorded a cd 20 years ago, I really enjoyed the production aspect of the process and wanted to do some stuff on my own in that regard.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

We're picking up into a side conversation here I think.* If I read the OP right, she's a beginning performer who has had her development as stage performer interrupted by the current virus crisis.

*Jim1960's point may be irrelevant to Winifred right now, but I appreciated considering his point on home recording vs studio for those seeking recording results rather than performing.

Apologies if I did that. Once i get reading through the posts, I sometimes lose track of where it all started.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Apologies if I did that. Once i get reading through the posts, I sometimes lose track of where it all started.

Happens to me too Jim.

I was worried that we might be confusing the OP, who seemed to be asking about transitioning from open mics to the next performing step which would normally be café or other small venue shows that are now closed down for the crisis, and so if there's any value instead (at her early career point) in posting videos.

This side conversation about choices for folks looking for quality sound recordings is actually interesting to some (others) of us, particularly since you seem to have some experience to share from your path in acquiring considerable home recording gear. Maybe an new thread?

[Chipotle]

I wager most home recordists haven't spent nearly that much money. I've been doing it for some time, and my investment in recording gear is more like $600 than $60,000. You can get very good results without spending a lot these days.

What you can't do immediately, even with money being no object, is get the experience to use that $600 or $60,000 worth of equipment effectively. I have the advantage of having been involved in music and recording for decades, even if not at a professional level.

For someone who is just getting started--and may not even know if that knowledge and effort is something they want to pursue--home vs studio recording is a decision that involves more than mere dollars.

[Glennwillow]

I don't think you need to spend $60K on video and home recording equipment to be effective on YouTube. But I do think you need to spend more than $200.

Presenting yourself at least somewhat professionally on YouTube is very helpful to get views and subscribers, but some people are very effective without a particularly professional approach.

YouTube is a young person's medium, so it helps to be young. It also helps to be very, very talented so that people want their friends to see or hear what you are doing. And finally, it helps to be good looking.

If you meet all three of those criteria, then you probably don't have to spend $60K on equipment. You could start with a $200 Zoom camera, but you probably will not be happy with that after a while.

I don't know what the minimum that is needed to be able to make videos that are good enough to attract viewers. I'd guess that the starting point is somewhere around $2-5K. It's not cheap. $500 for an entry level computer interface, $1200 for a powerful enough computer and a couple of decent video monitors, $1000 for a couple of entry level active monitor speakers, $1500 for two small diaphragm condenser (SDC) mics and for one decent large diaphragm condenser (LDC) mic, $300 for entry level mic stands and some cables, $200 for entry level software, $1500 for two decent HD video cameras, $500 for sound treatment for your bedroom walls... So we are up to... $6700. I am making quick estimates here, but you can see how it adds up. You can certainly spend less money, but $200 doesn't scratch the surface.

You could buy a Tascam multi-track digital recorder for $500 and a couple of low-cost LDC mics and buy a $700 camera and with mic stands and cables maybe spend only ~$1500. You still need a computer to do video editing.

Having a video made by a studio is going to be even more expensive, however. Studio time can vary from $50 to $500 per hour. The time to make one pro level video could easily cost about $20K. A person could buy an awful lot of very good equipment for that kind of money.

I have always felt that it made more sense to buy decent equipment and learn how to do it, to become a resource for yourself. If you become a resource for yourself, you can be a resource for others, too. You never know how you might use these skills. I'm using mine a lot right now to help some local organizations during this shelter-in-place period.

I know that a lot of musicians don't want to deal with becoming their own technician, but if you do, it is worth a lot of money over time.

- Glenn

[KevWind]

Winfred

As does happen here the discussion has blossomed

I would agree that deciding wether or not you want to invest the time and money in learning to record and video yourself OR not is the first thing to do.

Because as others have noted if you go down this route it will take time and money and will end up being more than a one time $200 for a camera purchase .
That said however:
I just went back and reread and finally picked up on this :

but I thought if I get tech savvy and create a nice recording here with my own Focusrite Scarlette 2i2 3rd Gen digitizer.

So if you already have a Scarlett 2i2 (technically called an "interface") then If you decide DIY is the route you want to take .Then I think the Zoom 4k camera will likely be a reasonable inexpensive next investment, and will likely serve well into the future as far as the video part of the equation. BUT
Because the mic pres, converters, and interface capability on the Scarlett will are what you will want to use for the Audio portion of your videos as soon as you afford 1 or 2 mics .


ALSO regardless of whether or not you decide to DIY or go to a pro studio ......
In reading your replies I also picked up the lengths of songs you are talking about. I would advise that especially for an introductory song ( as well as the majority of your songs thereafter Covers or Original ) make them 3:30 minutes or shorter.
Do not start off with a 9:00 minute song..... "How well" that might go over at an open mic is irrelevant, YouTube is completely different universe.
There are very specific reasons that almost without exception , "radio ready" versions of songs are 3:30 or shorter.

The true genius in songwriting is taking complex subjects and observations of life, and making them simple , short and to point, with as few words as possible.

[midwinter]

Just my perspective:

My band’s videos often get thousands of views on Facebook and little to none on YouTube. We have songs on Spotify with >10k streams that on YouTube currently have 106 views.

We made, I think, $75 on streaming platforms of all kinds in 2019.

Record your stuff and put it out there because you love it and want to share it and be happy if you get some streams/views.

Look through my post history in “Show and Tell” for the quality of our videos, which are 50/50 shot professionally and recorded in our studio vs just on an iPhone for video and an Apogee One for audio.

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

And even in our new internet age, it's pretty much impossible to get noticed if you're not in an entertainment city, and (under normal circumstances) out there working it relentlessly. Nearly as impossible even if you are.

Hi Brent! I live near Minneapolis and was told by an open mic host that he considers it the best place for the music scene in the country. The problem is the CoVid19 virus has changed all that about musicians having paid gigs, or testing songs in public at open mics etc. What would you do with the way things are now? We are under stay-at-home rules by the governor and since March 27, 2020 I've been isolating. Even a recording studio I inquired at doesn't see things changing soon and just sent best wishes.
Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Top of the Day!
Winfred

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I started my YouTube channel in the summer of 2016, so I have not quite reached four years yet.

I wanted to be able to post videos on the AGF and so a YouTube channel made the most sense. I never intended to be any kind of YouTube star or to monetize my channel, and I have done neither. However, I have a little over 1600 subscribers at this point, so with time, you can accumulate some people who are at least somewhat interested in what you do. Silly Moustache has a good following, just over 2,000 subscribers. You might check out what he does.

I started out with only original pieces on my channel and I got very few hits on my videos and very few subscribers. So, I started doing covers, and that got more attention. Then, people asked me to make some tutorials to explain how I played various songs, and the truth is, that is what listeners want, at least from me. My tutorial of "Vincent" has over 66K views, which is the first one I did, on request. I wish I knew then what I know now about making tutorials to keep from irritating viewers. Of my covers, the highest viewed cover is of the Glen Campbell version of "By the Time I Get to Phoenix," 7.1K views.

I think even with my video covers, people watch my stuff mostly because they are interested in how I play songs they would like to cover. I show my left and right hands freely in my videos and so an astute observer can figure out how I am playing just about anything I do.

YouTube allows a person to monetize their channel once they have at least 1000 subscribers and have more than X amount of viewing time per month. I believe you have to garner at least $100 per month from ad revenue, and that takes a lot of views. I have never bothered; YouTube ads irritate me and I do not want to irritate my viewers.

Regarding copyrighting your original songs, I did not bother copyrighting the original stuff I published on YouTube. I used to copyright everything way back 30 years ago. It never hurts to do it, but my own experience is that it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to steal your music. If you had to prove ownership, you've got a YouTube video with a date on it showing you the original poster of the song. And you are going to have other stuff at your home showing that you are the originator of the song. It's not bullet proof; a copyright is better.

From a Google search:

"Should I copyright my music before putting it on YouTube?
So, if you've recorded your song in a video, it is already copyrighted. What you probably really want to know is whether you need to register your copyrighted work with your country's Trademark Office before uploading it to YouTube, and the answer is no. ... Jan 23, 2017" www.quora.com › Do-I-need-to-register-the-copyright-of-my-own-song..

I hope this might be helpful. Best of luck to you!

- Glenn

Hi Glenn!

Thanks very much for your response! I would like to find you on YouTube, but if you don't want to reveal that, that's fine... or to me in a private message. What kind of video equipment did you use on YouTube? It seems like you had yourself as the subject with the whole video. I was thinking if viewers just saw me the whole song it would be boring. I'm thinking of doing my version of "Both Sides Now" by Joni Mitchell and having a brief shot of me at the beginning and at the end, maybe 30 seconds each shot. I don't at all know how I'm going do it,but I plan to patch in clips of cloud formations videos from one of those free sites. I saw clips of about 1 minute for free and just have a series of those. Is that a good idea, or is actually having the musician seen through the whole video best? Maybe I can find you with your cover song titles you mention. I like Glenn Campbell songs you mention... actually written by Jimmy Webb. It was funny in an interview with Jimmy he said he was working on, "Witchita Lineman" and sent an early draft to Glenn. Once he was finished with the song he called Glenn he was finished and Glenn said, "It's done! Already finished!" ha! That's the way we all heard it, and early draft ha!

Thanks Again!
Winfred

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Winfred

Hi Brent! I live near Minneapolis and was told by an open mic host that he considers it the best place for the music scene in the country. The problem is the CoVid19 virus has changed all that about musicians having paid gigs, or testing songs in public at open mics etc. What would you do with the way things are now?

Work on the things you can work on -- playing, singing, songwriting.

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I don't think you need to spend $60K on video and home recording equipment to be effective on YouTube. But I do think you need to spend more than $200.

Presenting yourself at least somewhat professionally on YouTube is very helpful to get views and subscribers, but some people are very effective without a particularly professional approach.

YouTube is a young person's medium, so it helps to be young. It also helps to be very, very talented so that people want their friends to see or hear what you are doing. And finally, it helps to be good looking.

If you meet all three of those criteria, then you probably don't have to spend $60K on equipment. You could start with a $200 Zoom camera, but you probably will not be happy with that after a while.

I don't know what the minimum that is needed to be able to make videos that are good enough to attract viewers. I'd guess that the starting point is somewhere around $2-5K. It's not cheap. $500 for an entry level computer interface, $1200 for a powerful enough computer and a couple of decent video monitors, $1000 for a couple of entry level active monitor speakers, $1500 for two small diaphragm condenser (SDC) mics and for one decent large diaphragm condenser (LDC) mic, $300 for entry level mic stands and some cables, $200 for entry level software, $1500 for two decent HD video cameras, $500 for sound treatment for your bedroom walls... So we are up to... $6700. I am making quick estimates here, but you can see how it adds up. You can certainly spend less money, but $200 doesn't scratch the surface.

You could buy a Tascam multi-track digital recorder for $500 and a couple of low-cost LDC mics and buy a $700 camera and with mic stands and cables maybe spend only ~$1500. You still need a computer to do video editing.

Having a video made by a studio is going to be even more expensive, however. Studio time can vary from $50 to $500 per hour. The time to make one pro level video could easily cost about $20K. A person could buy an awful lot of very good equipment for that kind of money.

I have always felt that it made more sense to buy decent equipment and learn how to do it, to become a resource for yourself. If you become a resource for yourself, you can be a resource for others, too. You never know how you might use these skills. I'm using mine a lot right now to help some local organizations during this shelter-in-place period.

I know that a lot of musicians don't want to deal with becoming their own technician, but if you do, it is worth a lot of money over time.

- Glenn

Hi Glenn!

Wow, you artists and actual technicians in sound, are phenomenal here. This is so great all of you!!!! I was actually laughing at myself as I read some of the realities about being a musician and trying to be heard in this sudden shock of a CoVid19 era right in the middle of the juncture I'm at... although not to sound self-centered as I pray for all and take caution and isolate etc. I was laughing as I don't make the grade for what I didn't realize your advice -- YouTube being the young person's medium, being very very talented, and good looking. I'm 66 yrs old, been playing guitar since I was 12 although with big time gaps, and nothing to look at plus being 270 lbs to boot ha!

Now in the "big city"... I went to a recording studio just before the virus hit. It's only $35 an hour compared to other studios, and the owner very nice. As I was describing myself he quietly added, "and leave something behind". I guess in part I'm doing that before I get a stroke or heart attack or whatever. I never played in public until now, open mics for last 2 yrs, and very surprised I've had a lot of good signs. An experienced big city, gig earning, musician told me, to take those signs (I described some to him that surprised me, standing ovation, hugs, handshakes, some in tears, and from young people too... also invited to play for 2 big family get-togethers of people I don't even know etc) as definitely good ones.

In 2004 I, after some of my sibs independently of each other said I should record my acoustic solo piano music (no singing), I went from recording and selling homemade solo piano cassettes, to then buying the "M-Box" by Digidesign, two matched pairs of large condenser mics, the Studio Projects B3's that I still have, and paying a CD manufacturer. I sold close to 4,000 copies, but never toured etc. I'd had manufactured about 3,400 CD's and the other about 800 CD's all made myself. It was money all well spent on taking care of my mother.

Now years later in the big "city" and this happening over the past 2yrs with open mics with my old beat up guitar and harmonica etc. I didn't at all expect. Another happening was a host of a popular open mic on the side asked questions and at one point said, "You must know you are good." Really I'm not... but I like my music and want to share it and to know I'm leaving something behind. Meanwhile the virus looms, economic crash, inflation, food shortages and the q2n-4k suddenly recently going up $20, also many probably thinking like me, no public venues for quite a while and YouTube being of that few means to be heard.

I'm also seeing a lot of "sell-outs" with like q4n's "not available", q8's, the same. It seems to be happening and time is a serious factor, yet 2 weeks in and still undecided about equipment... I bought the Scarlet 2i2 3rd Gen in January and pop screens and shock mounts for my condensers and it all sits in the box unopened. After all the money spent, about $220, I got depressed thinking of having to learn ProTools all over again. In 2004 back when I had some money... I did learn it all, then hired an engineer to do mastering. He said he was blown away by my quality and charged the minimum price. But that was only two solo piano albums. Now I'll have one mic on my guitar and one for my voice. With video I might even pack it all on my bike, I don't own a car, and go to some nice places I know (a lot of lakes and river here) to record playing outdoors.

I only plan to record with two mics my vocals, guitar, and a harmonica I wear on a neck brace. I live on very low budget Social Security, so money is an issue. I want a nice sounding recording and picture, and feel a video is best even though I'm nothing to look at. Maybe I'm way off... but I think by nature listeners like to "see" the music being made, watch the artist's hands, see the troubadour sing, an important connection... plus I'm thinking of patching in visuals besides just me of nice scenes etc. I feel like I need a camera too. My smart phone is very cheap, free from a Senior's charity.
It has a lens, and an earphone jack... but I want better quality than that, so thinking not buying a Spire even though they seem great.

Since I have the condenser mics still, and cables and stands... I could plug into like the Zoom q8, only they are $400 or more plus the cost of one of those better memory cards... having to learn some software program again... so maybe the q4n I found for $300 and plug my condenser mics into the back of that. I still think of the q2n-4k but doubt it has much quality, but again... maybe a stepping stone. I dread all the techy stuff, but I realize it's going to be a reality I must again face, so maybe no outdoor recording of patching in pretty scenes and just me in my tight apt with my mess of books and papers, and risk the thin walls in this high-rise built in 1968, and a fire and police station a block away... Wow, with all that said do you Glen, or anyone else have any ideas. I will keep going over all the fantastic responses here. I just listened to I think his name is Captain Jack, to his music and wow great talent and quality recordings! I can't be going back into my shell and need to keep at this decision and make the best decision I can. I think there are people out there who will like my songs and must have courage and confidence.

I see one new q4n on Amazon for $330 and $25 shipping, on another site it for $300... I like the battery coming with it that is rechargeable... and of course other reasons. Is the usb connection breaking for some because of poor quality? It seems much more complicated to use than the q2n-4k, but you Glenn have never probably used that model, right? Getting the $50 battery pack for the q2n-4k, the wind sock, the memory card... and other things I see over $100 on top of the $220.

Kindest Regards,
Winfred

[varmonter]

As far as copywriting goes im no expert.
If you post in social media..Lets say
Blake Shelton sees it and says this
guy doesnt have this copywrited
So he steals it records it and has a number one hit. Youll need to find a lawyer who will do it for a % of what
he can get from sheltons people.Who
have better lawyers than him. Weighing
whether you think its all worth it or not.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by varmonter

As far as copywriting goes im no expert.
If you post in social media..Lets say
Blake Shelton sees it and says this
guy doesnt have this copywrited
So he steals it records it and has a number one hit. Youll need to find a lawyer who will do it for a % of what
he can get from sheltons people.Who
have better lawyers than him. Weighing
whether you think its all worth it or not.

The OP wouldn't need a great lawyer to win the case you described.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Winfred

Hi Glenn!

Thanks very much for your response! I would like to find you on YouTube, but if you don't want to reveal that, that's fine... or to me in a private message. What kind of video equipment did you use on YouTube? It seems like you had yourself as the subject with the whole video. I was thinking if viewers just saw me the whole song it would be boring. I'm thinking of doing my version of "Both Sides Now" by Joni Mitchell and having a brief shot of me at the beginning and at the end, maybe 30 seconds each shot. I don't at all know how I'm going do it,but I plan to patch in clips of cloud formations videos from one of those free sites. I saw clips of about 1 minute for free and just have a series of those. Is that a good idea, or is actually having the musician seen through the whole video best? Maybe I can find you with your cover song titles you mention. I like Glenn Campbell songs you mention... actually written by Jimmy Webb. It was funny in an interview with Jimmy he said he was working on, "Witchita Lineman" and sent an early draft to Glenn. Once he was finished with the song he called Glenn he was finished and Glenn said, "It's done! Already finished!" ha! That's the way we all heard it, and early draft ha!

Thanks Again!
Winfred

Hi Winfred,

My YouTube channel can be found by left mouse clicking "My You Tube Channel" at the bottom or closing of my post here. The actual link is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8a...PgnqMAU43Mmng/

I wish you well with all your efforts. It's a shame what this pandemic has done to entertainment, however. Stay well!

Regarding my approach on my YouTube channel, I show myself throughout the entire video because my experience has been that most people watch my videos because they are much more interested in learning to play the song than they are in being entertained. So the large majority of the time my hands are visible in the video showing how I am playing the song or piece.

- Glenn