NGD and help needed

Tempotantrum · #1 09-26-2021, 11:29 AM

Hi all - I just ordered a Martin d18 AA and am in a 72 hour evaluation. Question is: action is right at 3/32 & 2.5/32 (good). Top of saddle is exactly the same for low and high E respectively. Relief is at .016 with capo on the first and string held down on the 14th fret measured under the 6th fret. With that saddle height- it seems as if any adjustments in the future will mean a neck reset. I assume the saddle shouldn’t be any lower than it is now. Relief also seem like a little much but this is a t-bar neck so no adjustment available. Is this acceptable for a brand new Martin? It plays well right now.

davenumber2 · #2 09-26-2021, 12:10 PM

How tall is the saddle? Have any pictures?

dnf777 · #3 09-26-2021, 01:01 PM

That relief seems a little high for a brand new non-adjustable neck, but Im not too familiar with that system. Might be worth an eval from an uninvolved luthier for an honest opinion.

Tempotantrum · #4 09-26-2021, 01:06 PM

Saddle is 3/32 on the low e and 2.5ish on the high e using my 6” ruler or .93 low e and .88ish using the micrometer. It was lowered by the dealer because it came high from the factory. It is good now, my concern is future adjustments. Seems like the saddle is about as low as it should go. I’ll try and post a pic later.

Rev Roy · #5 09-26-2021, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempotantrum

Saddle is 3/32 on the low e and 2.5ish on the high e using my 6” ruler or .93 low e and .88ish using the micrometer. It was lowered by the dealer because it came high from the factory. It is good now, my concern is future adjustments. Seems like the saddle is about as low as it should go. I’ll try and post a pic later.

That’s a big red flag. I had a Martin Custom Shop OM guitar on order a while back. Shop owner did a basic setup to my specs (3/32”E, 2/32”e, .008” relief). Fortunately he was honest enough to send me a pic of the saddle before he shipped it. Asked if it was too low. Obviously, it was (see pic). He agreed and we canceled the sale.

mcduffnw · #6 09-26-2021, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempotantrum

Saddle is 3/32 on the low e and 2.5ish on the high e using my 6” ruler or .93 low e and .88ish using the micrometer. It was lowered by the dealer because it came high from the factory. It is good now, my concern is future adjustments. Seems like the saddle is about as low as it should go. I’ll try and post a pic later.

Hi Tempotantrum

Is the next bowed at all, or straight or somewhere in between...all the way from the nut to where the neck joins the body.

The big issue with Martin Authentics is if the neck is bowed, because there is no easy way to adjust that due to the T-Bar neck truss rod. If the next is straight, and you are not using heavy gauge strings, there is a very very good chance that will could go for years without any issue with the neck/fingerboard and playability.

But...if the neck is already bowed...even a little bit...you can start to have issues fairly quickly...months or years...that have no easy fix, and that gravity and pressure will slowly and surely make worse over time.

Any pictures you could post would be a big help...

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Gdjjr · #7 09-26-2021, 04:53 PM

I wonder about both my Martins, 00015M and a 00017- they don't have a lot of saddle above the bridge.

Tempotantrum · #8 09-26-2021, 07:38 PM

Here are a couple pics. Again - Relief is .016 at the sixth fret using a feeler guage with capo at 1 and holding 14 down. It plays fine now - I hate to buy a new guitar that is at max for adjustments day one. This could be fine - I am not sure as my experience over the last decade with new guitars is mostly Collings - and their stuff is perfect from the start. I really like the tone of this Martin - so I hope I am just overthinking this.

mcduffnw · #9 09-26-2021, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempotantrum

Here are a couple pics. Again - Relief is .016 at the sixth fret using a feeler guage with capo at 1 and holding 14 down. It plays fine now - I hate to buy a new guitar that is at max for adjustments day one. This could be fine - I am not sure as my experience over the last decade with new guitars is mostly Collings - and their stuff is perfect from the start. I really like the tone of this Martin - so I hope I am just overthinking this.

Well...

You can't blame Martin because the dealer lowered the action. Especially on the Authentic Series, Martin ships those out with action on the high side on purpose so folks can get it set up the way they want, and because the Authentic series was geared to the Bluegrass crowd/vintage Martin crowd and that is how the action was on those guitars back then as well.

So again, in my experience, the really important issue here is whether the neck/fingerboard is straight...no bow...or even a very slight overbow. If the neck is straight to slight overbow, you are likely in good shape for many many years to come. If the neck is bowed...even slightly...you run the risk over time...1 to 5 years...of the neck continuing to bow until the guitar is unplayable...or not enjoyable to play, and the fix is not simple nor inexpensive.

With the Martin Authentic lines, it really boils down to how dense and stiff was the Mahogany they used on the neck of the guitar a person is looking at...and that is...alas...unknowable up front, but will reveal itself over time.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Tempotantrum · #10 09-26-2021, 11:14 PM

Not blaming anyone for anything. Just wondering if this new guitar is at max adjustment. I am a bluegrass flat picker- I think the dealer recommended the reduction because in their opinion it was not comfortable to play for any style.

John Arnold · #11 09-27-2021, 03:59 AM

Quote:

If the neck is bowed...even slightly...you run the risk over time...1 to 5 years...of the neck continuing to bow until the guitar is unplayable...or not enjoyable to play, and the fix is not simple nor inexpensive.

The OP posted the relief measurement twice.
0.016" is high, but with a tee bar, it is unlikely to change. I am more concerned about the low saddle, since lightly built guitars tend to have some bellying of the top in the first year or two.

brencat · #12 09-27-2021, 07:14 AM

Saddle is on the low side, particularly given that high e action is 2.5/32 instead of 2/32 (ideal). But the relief of 0.016” scares me. Should be 0.005 - 0.01.”

I say send it back.

mcduffnw · #13 09-27-2021, 07:25 AM

Remember folks...

The OP said the DEALER lowered the action...lowered the saddle...because it came high from Martin...so the low saddle issue is easily addressed, it isn't a neck set angle issue.

The issue that is hard to easily correct is if the neck is bowed, and for me, on a non-adjustable truss rod neck, ANY bow is too much bow for my comfort.

Gravity and Pressure never take a day off...

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

jaan · #14 09-27-2021, 05:41 PM

All I can say is that, if it were me, it would be going back. I like a neck with nearly no relief and that is not that.

rollypolly · #15 09-28-2021, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gdjjr

I wonder about both my Martins, 00015M and a 00017- they don't have a lot of saddle above the bridge.

Glad I saw this thread. I have 3 Martin’s, two are close to brand new, with pretty low saddles (after lowering to a comfortable height - around 3/32s). I am beginning to assume this is just the way it is with some Martins. Two of them are 15 series, one was a custom d which is basically a 15 series. All have less than 1/8” saddle left.