McPherson Sable vs Emerald X20

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by raysachs

Are you saying that's what you came away with from reading other people's impressions, or from now having played both?

Because based on what I've read, I've heard the same thing, that the Sable is warm and woody (again, to a given listener's interpretation). And having owned an X20, I didn't find it warm or woody. I found the X7 much closer to the sound I want to hear from an acoustic and my interest in the Sable comes from that same place. I'll still probably check one out when I get a chance. I'm pretty sure I'd have loved the sound of the X30, but I just don't have ANY need (or want) for something that big and loud. To my ears, the X7 and X30 sounded like bigger and smaller versions of a very similar sound - the X20 sounded quite different to me.

So I guess, basically. the more the Sable sounds like an X20, the less I'd likely be interested in it. But if I play one and don't like it, I KNOW I could buy another X7 and have the sound I like, even in a guitar that's a little smaller than ideal. So that's the safe choice in the back of my mind.

And I may not buy a new guitar at all, for the foreseeable future. I love both of my current acoustics, love the variety, and seem to be doing just fine managing the humidity issues. But there's something about the convenience of carbon fiber, right out on a stand in any conditions, that I love and am still tempted by.

-Ray

What I came away with from reading other people's impressions:

I came away thinking Sable=warm, woody and X20=not warm, not woody (more carbon sounding).


What I came away from David's and my meeting yesterday:

This doesn't say that they sounded the same, but instead that they were not as far apart as I expected, based on reading other folks' comments in this forum.

Bear in mind that David and I both played fingerstyle with bare fingers (i.e. no thumb or finger picks) and we both played rather softly rather than loud and aggressively.

I do realize that if you play a guitar with a pick, fingerstyle with thumb and possibly finger picks, softly, aggressively, anywhere in between, all these are variables that would yield a different sound.

This, to me, is the problem with posting our impressions or even listening to a youtube video. Part of "try before you buy" is that you are playing the guitar in your own particular manner and getting the sound from it that you will have to live with if you buy the guitar.

We will each sound like ourselves when we play a guitar, and David and I seem to achieve a similar sound, though we played different styles. He played solo fingerstyle material and I played a fingerstyle jazz chord melody style. I doubt that mattered as much as technique (i.e. the bare fingers and mellower approach that we seem to share).

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

I will weigh in on what I hear, or more accurately don't hear, in my Sable.

Essentially, I hear a kind of multi-band compression that's missing or less prominent in the other CF guitars I've played, including a few Emeralds.

For instance the lowest E, if played alone and really hit hard, is not "allowed" to sound out and bloom in the same way that other guitars allow.

It's this bloom in multiple frequencies that seems carefully moderated that makes the guitar seem very balanced, and kind of "woody", but also darker.

Nice detailed description!

Having seen some of your videos, I can tell you that your playing approach to the guitar is very different from mine. I suspect that your approach would bring these things out much more readily than my approach. So the same guitar in my hands will sound different than in your hands. We each sound like ourselves, whatever guitar we play.

By the way, I have enjoyed your videos.

Tony

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

What I came away with from reading other people's impressions:

I came away thinking Sable=warm, woody and X20=not warm, not woody (more carbon sounding).


What I came away from David's and my meeting yesterday:

This doesn't say that they sounded the same, but instead that they were not as far apart as I expected, based on reading other folks' comments in this forum.

Bear in mind that David and I both played fingerstyle with bare fingers (i.e. no thumb or finger picks) and we both played rather softly rather than loud and aggressively.

I do realize that if you play a guitar with a pick, fingerstyle with thumb and possibly finger picks, softly, aggressively, anywhere in between, all these are variables that would yield a different sound.

This, to me, is the problem with posting our impressions or even listening to a youtube video. Part of "try before you buy" is that you are playing the guitar in your own particular manner and getting the sound from it that you will have to live with if you buy the guitar.

We will each sound like ourselves when we play a guitar, and David and I seem to achieve a similar sound, though we played different styles. He played solo fingerstyle material and I played a fingerstyle jazz chord melody style. I doubt that mattered as much as technique (i.e. the bare fingers and mellower approach that we seem to share).

Tony

Thanks for the clarification - that's what I thought you were saying, but I wasn't sure. Well, it just comes down to what it always comes down to - I'm just gonna have to play a Sable and decide for myself... Guitars frequently surprise me when I play them, either to the good or the bad. BTW, I mostly play with a pick, either strumming or picking, but I do also play some limited finger style. But I have another guitar with wider string spacing that I'd probably lean on for the finger style stuff.

-Ray

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by raysachs

Thanks for the clarification - that's what I thought you were saying, but I wasn't sure. Well, it just comes down to what it always comes down to - I'm just gonna have to play a Sable and decide for myself... Guitars frequently surprise me when I play them, either to the good or the bad. BTW, I mostly play with a pick, either strumming or picking, but I do also play some limited finger style. But I have another guitar with wider string spacing that I'd probably lean on for the finger style stuff.

-Ray

For fingerstyle, the string spacing felt wider on the X20 than on the Sable. The nut string spacing and string placement was identical between the two guitars, while the saddle spacing was a 1/16" wider on the X20 at 2 1/4". The difference was noticeable.

There was a time when this difference would have made all the difference in my purchasing choice (leaning toward the wider X20). However, there was a thread in the general discussion part of the form some time ago that changed this for me.

Somebody posted saying that if I was having trouble keeping strings separate with a 1 3/4" nut guitar, then maybe I wasn't placing my fingers straight down on the strings and instead, angling them ever so slightly.

Sure enough, when I really focused on that, I found that poster's advice to be spot on. After spending time working on that, I became quite comfortable playing fingerstyle on the typical Taylor string spacing, which is also what the McPherson has.

I still enjoy my 00 12 fret guitars with their 1 7/8" nut and 2 5/16" saddle, but am not limited to those instruments for comfortable fingerstyle.

Anyway, I do agree that one really must play a particular guitar to know whether it is a good fit for both playing comfortable and tone. If you play with a pick, I am certain my Sable will sound very different in your hands and that there will be a more noticeable difference in sound between the Sable and X20 simply because I believe that to be true for any two different guitars being compared.

Tony


Tony

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

For fingerstyle, the string spacing felt wider on the X20 than on the Sable. The nut string spacing and string placement was identical between the two guitars, while the saddle spacing was a 1/16" wider on the X20 at 2 1/4". The difference was noticeable.

There was a time when this difference would have made all the difference in my purchasing choice (leaning toward the wider X20). However, there was a thread in the general discussion part of the form some time ago that changed this for me.

Somebody posted saying that if I was having trouble keeping strings separate with a 1 3/4" nut guitar, then maybe I wasn't placing my fingers straight down on the strings and instead, angling them ever so slightly.

Sure enough, when I really focused on that, I found that poster's advice to be spot on. After spending time working on that, I became quite comfortable playing fingerstyle on the typical Taylor string spacing, which is also what the McPherson has.

My issue is never at the fretting end, it's the picking end. My picking hand needs all the help it can get and I'm amazed at the difference in playability between 2 1/4" bridge spacing (my 000-28EC) and 2 5/16". One measly 16th of an inch makes THAT much difference? Turns out it does. I've also played 2 3/8" guitars which felt more luxurious yet, and narrower than 2 1/4", which I just couldn't get around on. I've basically come to the conclusion that for fingerpicking 2 1/4 is my minimum spacing. The Sable is another 1/16 skinnier, so it would get little, if any fingerpicking time in my world. I have fairly long, skinny fingers too, but I'm just not much of a finger style player and every bit of space at that end seems to help. At the fretting end, I've been playing chords and leads for 45 years, so my left hand knows what it's doing well enough. My right hand, OTOH, is easily confused!

-Ray

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by raysachs

My issue is never at the fretting end, it's the picking end. My picking hand needs all the help it can get and I'm amazed at the difference in playability between 2 1/4" bridge spacing (my 000-28EC) and 2 5/16". One measly 16th of an inch makes THAT much difference? Turns out it does. I've also played 2 3/8" guitars which felt more luxurious yet, and narrower than 2 1/4", which I just couldn't get around on. I've basically come to the conclusion that for fingerpicking 2 1/4 is my minimum spacing. The Sable is another 1/16 skinnier, so it would get little, if any fingerpicking time in my world. I have fairly long, skinny fingers too, but I'm just not much of a finger style player and every bit of space at that end seems to help. At the fretting end, I've been playing chords and leads for 45 years, so my left hand knows what it's doing well enough. My right hand, OTOH, is easily confused!

-Ray

This is exactly (in my opinion, of course) the kind of self-knowledge that goes a long way to getting the right guitar in a "try before you buy" situation. It seems to me that reading about a particular guitar or even watching a video, is just no substitute for actually feeling it in your hands and hearing it in your ears.

Tony

[DavidE]

"I came away thinking Sable=warm, woody and X20=not warm, not woody (more carbon sounding)."

A different DavidE here. I had both at the same time and I found them to be pretty different. The above kind of captures it. Also, the necks were night and day. I never felt comfortable with the Emerald neck. It's just a weird shape. The Sable neck feels great and has a more common shape. It didn't take me long to put the X20 up for sale after I got the Sable.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by DavidE

"I came away thinking Sable=warm, woody and X20=not warm, not woody (more carbon sounding)."



A different DavidE here. I had both at the same time and I found them to be pretty different. The above kind of captures it. Also, the necks were night and day. I never felt comfortable with the Emerald neck. It's just a weird shape. The Sable neck feels great and has a more common shape. It didn't take me long to put the X20 up for sale after I got the Sable.

Were the other factors in why the X20 just didn’t suit you? I ask because the Emerald and CF Journey necks are nearly identical from info I’ve gathered and I thought that you have/had an OF660 and liked it.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by DavidE

"I came away thinking Sable=warm, woody and X20=not warm, not woody (more carbon sounding)."



A different DavidE here. I had both at the same time and I found them to be pretty different. The above kind of captures it. Also, the necks were night and day. I never felt comfortable with the Emerald neck. It's just a weird shape. The Sable neck feels great and has a more common shape. It didn't take me long to put the X20 up for sale after I got the Sable.

Were there other factors in why the X20 just didn’t suit you? I ask because the Emerald and CF Journey necks are nearly identical from info I’ve gathered and I thought that you have/had an OF660 and liked it.

[Captain Jim]

Maybe the title to this thread should be "McPherson Sable and Emerald X20 play together nicely and everyone has fun!"

[bsman]

I was really hoping for more of a thunderdome "two guitars enter, one guitar leaves" recitation.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Maybe the title to this thread should be "McPherson Sable and Emerald X20 play together nicely and everyone has fun!"

The title was chosen as a kind of follow up to a recent thread looking for comparisons between the two. However, I do think your suggested title probably more accurately describes what happened.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by bsman

I was really hoping for more of a thunderdome "two guitars enter, one guitar leaves" recitation.

That did happen, but not in the way you might have expected. David took his Emeralds and went home while mine McPhersons stayed because I live there.

Tony

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Were the other factors in why the X20 just didn’t suit you? I ask because the Emerald and CF Journey necks are nearly identical from info I’ve gathered and I thought that you have/had an OF660 and liked it.

The Emerald neck felt nothing like the neck on my OF660. I have a very poor memory, but I think the Emerald was like a wide D shape with a flat back. It was totally different than anything else I've tried. I didn't like the shape of the Rainsong N2 neck either, but I love the neck on my Rainsong Shorty SG.

Oh, other factors. The sound of the Emerald was very different. The ergonomics were great and the construction was very nice. But the sound and the neck were what prompted me to sell it.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by DavidE

It was totally different than anything else I've tried. I didn't like the shape of the Rainsong N2 neck either, but I love the neck on my Rainsong Shorty SG.

Oh, other factors. The sound of the Emerald was very different. The ergonomics were great and the construction was very nice. But the sound and the neck were what prompted me to sell it.

Thank you David. Isn't the neck from the N2 and the NS the exact same profile just different scales? Now that I think of it I've not picked up a 14 fret RainSong with the N2 neck. I had a Shorty and found the neck to be really nice in the "cowboy chord" area but much more difficult to play fast passages up the neck. I don't do "thumb arounds" so that was never an issue but I do often play in a pseudo classical position with my thumb directly behind my fretting fingers and about midway down the neck. I also couldn't find a capo that worked very well on the RainSong either, Shubbs being my favorite.