Bracing on a Martin D-18

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

It has the CF-Spruce-CF bridge plate so it's likely to be the real thing. For a very blurry picture I am curious what aspects of its construction disappoints? Fair warning, I don't even own an acoustic guitar at the moment, and have no Martin fanboy problems that I am aware of. :~).

The finger braces do not abut the X braces.

The X braces are not well formed, and do not appear to be sanded after being poorly formed.

And then there’s the glue failure, which is not that hard to avoid, even in a factory situation.

Martin quality has ebbed and flowed over the years, with the mid to late 70’s being the low point IMO. But the last decade or two have looked like a renaissance to me, particularly for their 18/28/42/45 main lines. This photo is very disappointing to me, if it is indeed a true style 18 Martin.

[jonfields45]

Loose brace aside, and we don't know what that instrument was exposed to, I don't see anything that is more than cosmetically different from the appropriate example.

[Mr.November]

I bought a proper inspection mirror, so here are some better photos. There appears to be a few loose braces. I’m not sure why the guitar builder is in question, but here’s a photo of the model and serial.

Thanks ASC67 for the links to the luthiers.








https://i.imgur.com/pBByIYC.jpg

[John Arnold]

The added photos also depict another unfortunate lapse. The ends of the X brace and the upper transverse brace are gapped away from the top, which can only occur if there is a sloppy fit where the kerfing is notched out. That should always be a snug fit, to prevent the brace ends from popping loose.
I cannot imagine a situation where overheating could cause such widespread failure. It is simply a poor glue job, IMHO.
I have heard that combining protein glue and torrefied spruce can lead to such problems.

I don't see anything that is more than cosmetically different from the appropriate example.

The differences may appear subtle, but they are far from insignificant. The tops in the photo have the finger braces touching the X-braces (like every vintage Martin that I have encountered).

[redir]

You can clearly see in that shot of the UTB that it was not fit properly. Even though the brace is loose there is STILL a gap there. That was way off. You can also see that where the X brace is fitted the kerfed lining is damage and broken and shifted to the left. That would make me think that it took an impact. It could also be the case that it was again an improper fit and when the top was clamped on it broke.

John Arnold I thought I heard you once on some forum say that you recommended the use of Fish glue with torrified tops?

That's what I have been using and so far so good.

[martingitdave]

I have been very disappointed with the few Martin’s I have bought and sold in the past 3-4 years. Prior to that I’d been happy with Martin, especially from the custom shop. As of late, I’m so disgusted with them I may not buy another standard series Martin again. This instance seems unbelievable, but I believe it.

[John Arnold]

I may have related that some builders are using fish glue with torrefied tops. I have not used either one. Hot hide glue has been known to have issues on torrefied spruce.

[DickHutchings]

This a good reason to buy a custom guitar from a good luthier. These problems are so easily dealt with in a small shop.

[Bruce Sexauer]

The builder was "in question" because for those of us who are more or less Martin-centric, it is beyond surprising to see this level of lack of attention to detail and its resultant failure coming from Martin.

If it were one on my guitars, heaven forbid, it would not matter to me whether or not it were in the original owner's possession, I would either buy it back or repair it ASAP. Assuming it were actually the spontaneous failure it appears to be.

[Peter Z]

I wonder if this guitar experienced a very hot day on the backseat of a car.

[phavriluk]

All those gaps! Yikes. And to me, those joints look like they never saw glue or clamps. I don't think a hot car is involved. I'm shocked and disappointed. The end of the story is yet to be told, and I'd love to hear it.

[NotALuth]

Feel free to correct me, but I would expect the model/serial number on the neck block on a genuine Martin to look like this example:



Quite a difference in the typeface/font! This along with the general standard of fit & finish makes me suspicious.

For the OP’s sake I hope I’m wrong.

Regards,
Clive.

[JonWint]

I haven't inspected any Modern Deluxe bracing in detail, but when did Martin start using "X" braces with tapered sides?

The tone bars are too different for CNC produced pieces.

Many of the braces have carving/sanding that doesn't look like typical Martin shapes.

Looks more "not Martin" than "Martin" to me.

Can you post exterior photos?

[mirwa]

I do warranty repairs for Martin here in Australia, a lot of that structure does not look genuine, it may be a rebraced martin or maybe a martin copy.

Before sinking any more money into it, make sure its a genuine item

Steve

[jonfields45]

I'm coming around to it not being the real thing, but as fakes go, this one is a cut above anything I've seen before which have been fake looking without needing a second look. Even the bride plate is a dark/light/dark sandwich. I doubt many people would know to look for that.