Does tonewood matter if you are playing amplified?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I've always been curious if you are plugged in (as opposed to a mic) if tonewood matter as much.

Hi pz

Of course tone wood matters - that is, unless the tone wood in the guitar is NOT affecting qualities like bright or dark tone, responsiveness, attack, sustain, resonance, etc differently in different instruments. Anything which is reflected from the fingerboard, and the top, of a guitar is going to pass through the pickups.

With a sound-board-transducer, it's directly linked to the top tone wood (via the bridge plate), and is going to reflect the properties which that particular guitar's top exhibits. SBTs reflect dark/light tone, sustain, string attack, volume changes, resonance, and subtle changes in dynamics. The tone wood the top is built from drastically affects all these properties of tone.

If it's a mag pickup, it's still going to reflect sustain, volume and string attack. I don't hear dark and light tone with them. And it loses some of the subtlety.

If it's an under saddle it's going to reflect attack, sustain, responsiveness and string squeak, and gentle playing versus boisterous playing. I also hear some of the tone (or byproducts of the tone) reflected through under saddle pickups. Also string rattle.

The tops of my Olson, Kronbauer, Voyage-Air and Bashkin respond differently acoustically. They don't sound anything alike acoustically. In similar fashion I hear a difference when I'm using the K&K dual source in them through amps or PAs.

If the K&K Pure Mini pickups are not reproducing and reflecting the differences the guitars produce, why would they sound different through a PA or amp? (It's not all transferred via the internal mics).

[Pitar]

Beats me, but I will say that between the steel string and the classical I own, both with onboards, I prefer the sound of nylon strings over steel. Both have Piezo systems and that material just gets all harshed-up and squawky by steel strings. Nylon doesn't do that and the tone far and away bests steel strings. That's pretty much why I switched.

A thing about onboard electronics - Piezo is not the material you want if you're goal is to amplify your guitar. You need a proper microphone, preferably 2, to do that if your guitar's sound is what you want to try and faithfully replicate. Piezo creates electricity when frequencies transmit through the surface it's in contact with. In a guitar, those frequencies are not some mysterious sonic signatures specific to the various species of wood. They're just frequencies that excite the Piezo material and, if anything, they might distinguish the sound of varying string alloys (in the ear) rather than the wood.

So, no, tonewood isn't really in play. The upper price range onboard stuff is mostly acoustic emulators, but you won't read that directly from the printed matter. Words like enhance will be in print and if you read through it a couple times you'll begin to realize that a cinder block and your guitar will probably be very close in sound with the emulator type of systems. That's because they have emulator circuits built into them. But, they still sound pretty good, considering they're Piezo systems that do not grab your rosewood and place it into the audience's ear. The emulator P/U system does that. Win/win.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by Michael Watts

That would depend on the sensitivity of your pickup system, the quality of your sound reinforcement, and the ears of your audience.

Amen. I would add your own ears to the mix.

[stormin1155]

My experience is that USTs don't care a lot what kind of wood the guitar is made of. A plywood Jasmine doesn't sound a lot different than a solid wood Martin if equipped with the same UST system. But with better pickup systems, yes, woods and the quality of the guitar does matter.

[Kitkatjoe]

What are you amplifying? It’s a simple question that answers your question.[emoji4]

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I've always been curious if you are plugged in (as opposed to a mic) if tonewood matter as much.

The debate is pretty intense in the electric guitar world. Here, not so much. It will make a difference, unless a magnetic pickup is used (yes, I'm in the "Scott Grove Camp"). I've used M1As and EMG ACS pickups in the past and the tone is really the same, regardless of the guitar I've played with them. With practically all the rest, there is a big difference. I can "hear" the Lyrachord with my Ovations and, plugged in, they definitely sound different. With systems like the LR Baggs Anthem I love, is even more evident.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by Pitar

Beats me, but I will say that between the steel string and the classical I own, both with onboards, I prefer the sound of nylon strings over steel. Both have Piezo systems and that material just gets all harshed-up and squawky by steel strings. Nylon doesn't do that and the tone far and away bests steel strings. That's pretty much why I switched.

A thing about onboard electronics - Piezo is not the material you want if you're goal is to amplify your guitar. You need a proper microphone, preferably 2, to do that if your guitar's sound is what you want to try and faithfully replicate. Piezo creates electricity when frequencies transmit through the surface it's in contact with. In a guitar, those frequencies are not some mysterious sonic signatures specific to the various species of wood. They're just frequencies that excite the Piezo material and, if anything, they might distinguish the sound of varying string alloys (in the ear) rather than the wood.

So, no, tonewood isn't really in play. The upper price range onboard stuff is mostly acoustic emulators, but you won't read that directly from the printed matter. Words like enhance will be in print and if you read through it a couple times you'll begin to realize that a cinder block and your guitar will probably be very close in sound with the emulator type of systems. That's because they have emulator circuits built into them. But, they still sound pretty good, considering they're Piezo systems that do not grab your rosewood and place it into the audience's ear. The emulator P/U system does that. Win/win.

Your experience is quite different than mine. First of all, not all piezos are the same. Try to whack your guitar top with a piezo. Some of them won't pick up the guitar top, but others WILL. That tells a different story altogether. Besides, microphones will need preamps, just like piezos, and that changes everything, including the resulting plugged tone. And yes, try to play acoustic with a band using a mic.

There are piezos with certain tone (Fishman, for example) that will always stick out, regardless of the guitar, but they won't sound the same way with all guitars. Why? In a big way, because of the wood. Piezos, SBTs and mics behave very different from single coils and humbuckers.

[Robin, Wales]

My Seagull S6 Spruce with a K&k pure mini sounds like a..... Seagull S6 Spruce when plugged in. I'd be a little disappointed if I bought a Martin D-28 with a K&k pure mini and plugged it in and it sounded like a Seagull S6 Spruce! So yes tonewoods do make a difference.

[tadol]

Ignoring the tonewoods question, what you are asking is how amplification affects the tone of an acoustic instrument. Obviously, the simplest is a microphone and amp - and whether you can hear the tonal qualities of your guitar would depend entirely on the the quality and responsiveness of the microphone, and of the amp. If you can’t hear differences between different mics, and different amps or PAs, then no, the choice of tonewoods in your guitar probably doesn’t matter.

Once you get beyond the mic/amp question, then you get into the question of pickups, and as noted above, there are a lot of options with many different characteristics involved - and then, there are lots of differences in amps, and speakers, and if you wanna get crazy (which is one of the reasons for online forums) you can get into differences with power supplies, cables, etc, etc -

Where does choice of tonewoods fit, and how much does it matter? Well - I’d say, wherever you want it to, and as much as you want it to -

[Kitkatjoe]

Your guitar will be amplified, the complete package. It has it's own body it brings to the plug. To say it doesn't matter is just wrong ignorant. You may color that sound with settings and pedals but it's still the guitar your working with and they don't all sound the same.[emoji82][emoji3131]

[BT55]

Bruce Springsteen and the Eagles play Takamine guitars on stage - Enough Said!

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by BT55

Bruce Springsteen and the Eagles play Takamine guitars on stage - Enough Said!

Or they just don't care about sound quality.

[archerscreek]

I would answer with a definitive YES!!! I have two similarly spec'd Martin guitars, one has rosewood back and sides, the other mahogany. I use the exact same soundhole pickup, Fishman Rare Earth Blend in them, meaning I only have one pickup that I rotate back and forth.

The mahogany guitar is a lot easier to EQ and less prone to feedback. The rosewood booms a lot more low end when plugged in. To me, they sound a lot closer unplugged or played into a mic than when using a pickup.

Of course, I can usually fiddle with my EQ to get a similar soundfrom them, but the mahogany guitar is much easier to get where I want straight out of the case if using my pickup.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

I would answer with a definitive YES!!! I have two similarly spec'd Martin guitars, one has rosewood back and sides, the other mahogany. I use the exact same soundhole pickup, Fishman Rare Earth Blend in them, meaning I only have one pickup that I rotate back and forth.

The mahogany guitar is a lot easier to EQ and less prone to feedback. The rosewood booms a lot more low end when plugged in. To me, they sound a lot closer unplugged or played into a mic than when using a pickup.

Of course, I can usually fiddle with my EQ to get a similar soundfrom them, but the mahogany guitar is much easier to get where I want straight out of the case if using my pickup.

I've had similar results switching my soundhole pickup back and forth between an all-mahogany Martin 000 and a sitka/mahogany Martin dread. For some reason, I get a much easier-to-EQ sound from the all-hog guitar. People tell me that this shouldn't be the case, that all the pickup is reading is the strings interacting with the magnetic force, but that doesn't play out in reality.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Or they just don't care about sound quality.

I bet my house they care much more than you.