Help with smooth transition from open A to D

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Just pick a chord shape/technique (like the one you're using) and practice, practice.... practice. Muscle memory comes from......you guessed it......practice.

Friends, thanks all for the kind help. I will spend some time exploring the options this afternoon. As a beginner, it is a revelation to discover the alternate ways to shape a chord most economically and with the transition to the next chord firmly in mind.
Steve, appreciate the pastoral advice. Seems to me there is a quip about the way to get to Carnegie Hall with the same answer.
David

[stanron]

There is always a danger of trying to teach too much too soon so if this seems too complicated, just ignore it.

There are several ways of playing both chords so there are even more ways of changing between them.

I'm going to use finger numbers and not PIMA. The first finger is next to the thumb, the fourth finger is the little finger, sometime called the pinkey. I will use fingers 1, 2, 3 and 4.

First look at the A chord.

The standard way of teaching this is one finger per string. Finger 1 on the fourth string, finger 2 on the third string and finger 3 on the second string.

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 1 2 3 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

My fingers are too fat to play it like this so I use finger 2 to hold down the fourth and third string, and finger 3 to hold down the second string.

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 2 2 3 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

Another equally good way is to use just the one finger to hold down all three strings. Most people who do this use the first finger. It is a bonus if your first finger can bend back enough at the knuckle to let the open first string sound clearly. It's ok if the first string is muted because that note is already there, an octave lower, on the D string.

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 1 1 1 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

There is another three finger way of playing open A. The second finger is on the fourth string. The first finger is on the third string and the second finger is on the second string. These are all valid ways of playing open A.

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 2 1 3 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

Open D is usually taught as 1st finger on the third string, 3rd finger on the second string and 2nd finger on the first string.

x
╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 1 3 2
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

Another way has the 1st finger barring the first three strings and the 2nd finger on the second string.

x
╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 1 3 1
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │

A third way used the 2nd finger on the third string, The 4th finger on the second string and the 3rd finger on the first string.

x
╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 2 4 3
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │

This leaves your 1st finger free to hold down the sixth string at the second fret. In the other ways of playing D the sixth string note can be held down with the thumb or not played.

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
1 │ │ 2 4 3
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │

The simplest chord change, I think, is between the barred A and the barred D,

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 1 1 1 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

to

x
╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕	
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 1 3 1
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │

Others views may vary.

[SunnyDee]

If I'm doing a lot of A/D The D is mini bar with my index finger with either the middle or ring finger on the D note B string depending on what else I might need to use. I most often just do A with one finger, either the index or more often the ring finger so I can go to barres easily.

A nice transition sometimes is index barring A chord x02220 to Asus4 chord x02230 by just putting the middle finger on the D note B string to D chord xx0232 by shifting the index down so the D chord uses a mini bar across the second fret anchored by the middle finger. Much simpler than it sounds written out.

[Pitar]

Half barre the A chord shape with the index and then drop to the D shape. Loading up the A chord with three fingers is short changing the A chord. If you develop the half barre instead you will be able to color that chord with the other fingers, as and when needed, instead of tying them all up needlessly. Think of the barre chord shape for the C chord in second position. You'll end up half barring the 2-3-4 strings (E-C-G notes) with the tip of the ring finger so why not half bar the open A chord with the index? It's the better technique for opening up the A chord to all its coloring possibilities.

[BFD]

I always thought this guy had a pretty good thing going w/the A & the D. I had to figure it out by ear tho, and arrived at the same way DWKitt describes. Which, when you're in A, lets you keep your index finger on the G string when switching between A, D & E and allows you to get those JT hammers & pulloffs. The one finger bar A is also very handy

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

As a matter of technique, or etiquette, is it considered bad form to slide the finger in that way? A crutch, if you will.

It's already been said in this thread but ABSOLUTELY NOT! The ring finger in this instance is acting as a "Guide" finger. Guide and Pivot fingers are crucial elements of good guitar technique. See Aaron Shearer's Classic Guitar Technique, Volume 1. This book is an invaluable resource and although it was written for classical guitar instruction the lessons in the book will benefit anyone making a serious study of playing the guitar, regardless of style.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by BFD

I always thought this guy had a pretty good thing going w/the A & the D. I had to figure it out by ear tho, and arrived at the same way DWKitt describes. Which, when you're in A, lets you keep your index finger on the G string when switching between A, D & E and allows you to get those JT hammers & pulloffs. The one finger bar A is also very handy

I also independently derived JT's fingering when I was teaching myself left-handed from charts without fingering info. It just made sense to me to keep the same orientation of my middle and ring fingers for the G, C, Em, Am (ring above middle for all). I, too, "crawl" across the fretboard with anchors the way JT does, so my middle finger stays on the G string as a anchor and index falls to the E string for D. I didn't know JT did that til a couple of years later, but it was interesting to me that he, too, taught himself.

In response to the idea of cheating or crutches, I'm not sure why people think that you must lift the whole chord shape away, form a new shape in air, then put it down in the different chord shape, but that's certainly not the only way. To me, at least, it does not seem the best way, but it seems to be regularly taught to beginners who are even told to practice this kind of transition with different shapes in different keys that the player will likely never actually be using together in songs. Seems very inefficient to me, both in the movement and in the learning of it.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

I'm not sure why people think that you must lift the whole chord shape away, form a new shape in air, then put it down in the different chord shape.

It's years since I taught but when I did teach 'all fingers down at once' it was a cure for a specific problem. If that problem didn't occur it wouldn't get taught.

The problem was when a student couldn't play a simple chord sequence without losing time. If I judged that the changes were too slow because the student anchored one finger to place a second and then a third, I'd do the 'fingers all at once' routine. Once they could do it they weren't expected to do it forever. As they advanced they would be shown other ways of changing and playing chords. If they were doing 'one finger at a time' and not crashing on chord changes, that wouldn't need fixing.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

I also independently derived JT's fingering when I was teaching myself left-handed from charts without fingering info. It just made sense to me to keep the same orientation of my middle and ring fingers for the G, C, Em, Am (ring above middle for all). I, too, "crawl" across the fretboard with anchors the way JT does, so my middle finger stays on the G string as a anchor and index falls to the E string for D. I didn't know JT did that til a couple of years later, but it was interesting to me that he, too, taught himself.

In response to the idea of cheating or crutches, I'm not sure why people think that you must lift the whole chord shape away, form a new shape in air, then put it down in the different chord shape, but that's certainly not the only way. To me, at least, it does not seem the best way, but it seems to be regularly taught to beginners who are even told to practice this kind of transition with different shapes in different keys that the player will likely never actually be using together in songs. Seems very inefficient to me, both in the movement and in the learning of it.

Anchor fingers are ok and use them where they fit finger and sound wise. However if you neglect to learn how to form chords in air
you will be quite limited as to what you can play as fingerstyle or classical guitar player.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Friends, I would appreciate any suggestions as I try to improve the transition from open A to D. I find that, as I make the move, my ring finger tends to follow my middle finger (echoing the A fingering) and "falls" off the fret board . And I end up dong a two point landing - the index and middle finger at the same time, and then the ring finger in tow. This definitely slows the transition. I have tried slowing things waaaaay down. But mostly, that just seems to make the phenomenon more obvious and frustrating. I have tried having the finger follow the string down, but I do not want to develop a skidding habit. I also focus to keeping my hand more parallel to the fret board to keep the finger positioned over the string.
Thanks for any words of wisdom. Such a simple thing.....
David

Hi David

I arrived late to the discussion.

I have taught students for 40 years to form the A chord by dropping an A7 with fingers 2-3 at the second fret (strings 2 & 4), and then bringing the 1st finger between them from behind. Actually it's possible to do this without moving the index finger at all if we just reverse the chord order.

Instead of considering the transition from A to D, let's transition from D to A. Form the D chord and then leaving the first finger in place, hop the other two fingers into the A7 position. If you practice it a couple dozen times switching back-n-forth without playing anything on the right hand, you'll be nailing it before long.

Not only can you switch to D without lifting/moving the index finger, you can move the index finger back to the first fret to form AM7, or lift it to form A7, or starting with the A chord, move fingers 2-3 forward a fret (1st remains on 2nd fret) to form a Dmin chord.

This fingering also adds the flexibility to hammer on/off the 2nd string with with the ring finger. It's a more dynamic fingering position for future prepping one's self form more creative fingerings of simple chord forms in the future.

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[TBman]

Just as a general rule, the less you have to pick up and place, the smoother the transition.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by TBman

Just as a general rule, the less you have to pick up and place, the smoother the transition.

Generally though I often find it's a good idea to get the fingers a bit farther off the frets on many chord changes to help avoid stray finger noises or accidental string mutes. Also often I will be playing some first position or second position chord followed a split second later with a chord way up the neck. If I am going to land on that chord correctly I have prepare my fingers in the air.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Generally though I often find it's a good idea to get the fingers a bit farther off the frets on many chord changes to help avoid stray finger noises or accidental string mutes. Also often I will be playing some first position or second position chord followed a split second later with a chord way up the neck. If I am going to land on that chord correctly I have prepare my fingers in the air.

I was thinking more along the lines of anchor points. Moving up the board is another matter as you said.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by TBman

Just as a general rule, the less you have to pick up and place, the smoother the transition.

Hi Barry

Smoother, perhaps. Quicker for sure. I've had students who could move swiftly but not smoothly (separate techniques).

[Deliberate1]

OP here. Many thanks gents for all of the suggestions. I will spend time with all of them.