#1
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Combining K&K Pure Mini with Fishman Rare Earth Blend - opinions
I have a K&K Pure Mini SBT installed in my highly modified (if anyone’s interested what I mean by that, I will start a new thread on that topic) Avalon L25 and go into a L.R. Baggs Venue DI out in a AER Compact 60.
I love the Venue DI for its simple but effective features like the semi-parametric mids, the boost and the FX loop (which I use for some effects like Boss OC-3, a Electro Harmonix Freeze, a Looper and the L.R. Baggs Align Session). But somehow I’m not happy with the sound of the K&K Pure Mini - at least not with that particular guitar - and I‘ve been experimenting with the Fishman Rare Earth Blend. I really like the result of blending the mic with the magnetic PU, but would also like to try combining all three sources: magnetic, mic (both from the Fishman) and SBT (K&K). I think that would give a lot more of flexibility soundwise. Knowing that all three sources need / would benefit from separate EQing: a) What device/pedal would you recommend for EQing them separately? b) What device/pedal should I use to blend them together into my Venue DI? I know the Grace Design Felix would be an excellent high quality choice for this particular purpose (although I would need to use the mono option output on the Fishman for one, the K&K for the other channel), but it’s just not in my budget right now. I also thought of buying three parametric EQ pedals and go into a line mixer (like the RedPanda 3 to 1) to go in the Venue. I’ve been thinking a lot and did quite some research, but would like to hear also some other opinions from you guys. What are your thoughts on that matter? Thanks a lot! Christian |
#2
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I have the exact same pick up combo in my Furch :-) I also have a looper and an OC3!
I play modern fingerstyle and whilst the K&K is great, just a little mic gives top end openess/air plus improves on the body percussion. The mag gives me a defined bottom end plus you can run fx through it that don't work too well with other sources, we have *very* similar requirements. I have just bought the Bose T1 Tonematch to do exactly what you want - EQ/mix the sources separately, these are amazing value now they are being phased out, got mine brand new for the price they are going secondhand on EBAY. I haven't had chance to rebuild my board yet and my guitar is having a pickup wiring issue sorted by my tech, so can't give you a full report. However, Mike Dawes uses a Bose T1 to combine an even more complex pick up and pedal board set up, and if its good enough for the acoustic guitarist of the year two years running (voted by UK guitar mags), who takes his board all over the world playing many different venues, its certainly good enough for me! See here, Mike's rig and Tobias Rauscher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8QjGM_Q7pM&t=271s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u5CUury0vE
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Jon "The way nature seems to work is that it sends a messenger...the acoustic guitar needed to go in another direction, Michael Hedges became that messenger" Tommy Emmanuel |
#3
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JohnnyBGood thanks so much for your tipps! We have a very similar setup indeed.
The funny thing is, like Mike Dawes, I‘m also using a Freeze Pedal, the OC-3 and a ZVEX Wah, without ever hearing from a guy named Mike Dawes... I‘ve looked up the Bose T1 and I think it’s an awesome Mixer which is also pedalboard friendly enough that I might consider getting one. The only thing I‘m not sure about is the effects loop. I would still have to out into the Venue DI and then front of house. That way I run the effects through the Venue DI and also have the boost and mute function. |
#4
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I'd sure look into the Tonedexter as an option to simplify what you are trying to achieve. The K&K's with a Tonedexter alone will probably (IMHO) give you a better sound with a much simpler setup than the setup you are suggesting.
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2003 Martin OM-42, K&K's 1932 National Style O, K&K's 1930 National Style 1 tricone Square-neck 1951 Rickenbacker Panda lap steel 2014 Gibson Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe Ltd, Custom Shop, K&K's 1957 Kay K-27 X-braced jumbo, K&K's 1967 Gretsch 6120 Chet Atkins Nashville 2024 Mahogany Weissenborn, Jack Stepick Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina Tonedexter |
#5
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Just got an REB, wanting to install it in my guitar with a K&K. Mine is a newer version that came wired in stereo with the black cable:
White: Mag on Tip Black: Mic on Ring Red: Battery switch So if I wire the K&K to the ring, what do I do with the Black wire that's already wired there? Just clip it and wrap in electrical tape? The White wire should carry the mono mixed signal that I can blend with the blend wheel, right? Also, if I plug in a mono cable to it NOW (wired in stereo), does the Black mic signal get shorted to ground?
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'10 Wechter 5712c - Fishman Rare Earth '13 Jaffrey #26 - Malaysian Blackwood! '21 Gretsch 5622 '22 Furch Red Pure G-LR - Barbera Soloist ST-300 Mini + DIY mic preamp |
#6
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Finally got this wired up, REB + K&K. Signal flow using the Returns on my Helix. IR on both channels and a notable HPF on the K&K at 250 Hz, allowing the mag to cover the low end and reduce feedback concerns. Mic mixed in a 10-20% or so is plenty. A wide mid scoop on the REB around 600 Hz (to reduce electric-ness), and boost the bass at 110Hz some.
Both pickups sound pretty good by themselves. One thing I found was playing with different combinations of gain vs volume... they aren't the same. More gain gives a larger dynamic range, whereas simply more volume is just more volume without changing the dynamic range. So anyway, blending the two together is fairly subjective. I'm probably 40-60 (REB - K&K). The two pickups complement each other nice. When I strum or really dig in I can get a bit of that electric sound which I like. Fingerpicking soft is mainly the K&K with a better articulation from the mag, whereas fingerpicking harder gives much better clarity from the mag. I also have snapshots setup on Helix to do just REB or just K&K, so it's easy to switch to one or the other when I want... and when just K&K I turn the HPF off. So anyway, it will be a few weeks before I can try it out in a live environment, but I'm excited... a lot of possibilities.
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'10 Wechter 5712c - Fishman Rare Earth '13 Jaffrey #26 - Malaysian Blackwood! '21 Gretsch 5622 '22 Furch Red Pure G-LR - Barbera Soloist ST-300 Mini + DIY mic preamp |
#7
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Did you ever consider an Elite Acoustic Stompmix digital mixer ? Could be an option on this.
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Blazer & Henkes, vintage Martins & Gibsons, Altman, Martin 00016 Streetmaster mandolin family, Weissenborn, dobro, lap steel, pedal steel, 5-string banjo live gear: Dazzo, Schatten, K&K, Mimesis Kudos, Schoeps CMC6MK4, DPA4061, Neumann KM85, Grace Felix 2, SunnAudio, ToneDexter, RedEye https://www.youtube.com/@roberthasleder1526 |
#8
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That's an interesting device, never seen it. Rather impressive little digital mixer for 1/2 price of Helix. Granted the effects are minimal and it doesn't do amp modeling nor IR. But as a mixer it has 6 channels so that's better. They are really apples and oranges.
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'10 Wechter 5712c - Fishman Rare Earth '13 Jaffrey #26 - Malaysian Blackwood! '21 Gretsch 5622 '22 Furch Red Pure G-LR - Barbera Soloist ST-300 Mini + DIY mic preamp |
#9
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For my K&K + Sunrise, I use a RedEye Twin. I have also used a small mixer and you can insert effects in the effects loop of the mixer.
I have also found that using multiple pickups often just makes things complicated. I like the K&K pickups and get good results from 3 of my Taylors with K&K pickups. I can also access the Sunrise alone and have the SB2 preamp from Sunrise. When using both pickups, the blend is the real key but it also has its hassles and may not be as plug and play as a single source, or your REB with the mic and mag. |