What year is this J-45? - Page 2

llew · #16 07-12-2016, 12:31 PM

Thanks Rmz. I never cease to learn from the knowledge on this forum. I appreciate it!

sunbgroove · #17 07-12-2016, 12:53 PM

Thanks guys, I'm learning here! So, based on the pictures and video I posted can you say if this guitar has Double X bracing or the older style?

Wade Hampton · #18 07-12-2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llew

Thanks Todd...I had no clue. But I have too ask...why? Seems they would just confuse everyone...okay...maybe just me? Were they trying to compete directly with Martin's square shoulder standard dreads?

Yes, of course they were. The slope shoulder J-45's weren't selling well, so Gibson started making the J-45's in the square-shouldered shape.

So much of it was a result of trends current at the time. You had Crosby, Stills Nash and Young playing Martin dreadnoughts, and literally hundreds of thousands of young would-be musicians took their cues from them. If Stephen Stills had been deeply interested in vintage Gibsons instead of vintage Martins, the revival in interest in old Gibson designs might have started 30 or 40 years earlier than it did.

But at the time you couldn't give away slope-shouldered dreadnoughts...

Anyway, Sunbgroove, if I were you I would leave that guitar mostly alone, and enjoy it for what it is, not try to make it into something it's not.

You mentioned the replacement tuners, but mentioned that "fortunately" the original gears are in the case pocket.

Hey, those tuners on there now are the old Schaller gears with "Made In W. Germany" stamped on them. Those are excellent tuners:

˙˙˙

The reason those tuners got put on there in the first place is that they're much more accurate than the original tuners were. Since this guitar is always going to be more of a player's instrument than a collector's piece, you might as well keep it as fully functional as you can.

I mean, if you ENJOY being annoyed by inaccurate, sloppy tuning gears, go ahead and put the original gears back on. But I think you'd be better off selling those on eBay and keeping the Schallers on the guitar.

The only change to the guitar as it is right now I would even contemplate would be to replace the adjustable bridge saddle with a bone saddle. This would entail yanking the metal parts out of there, filling the saddle slot and post holes with rosewood, then re-routing for the new saddle.

And even that is something I wouldn't automatically do, not if you like the way the guitar sounds right now. It might give the guitar a rich, fuller sound - to an extent. But it's still going to have the Manhattan-sized bridgeplate and overly robust bracing on the underside of the top, so you wouldn't reap as much tonal benefit as you would if you were to replace the adjustable bridge setup on, say, a late 50's or early 60's Gibson.

So, honestly, I think I'd just leave it the hell alone. If you want to cut some weight from the headstock you can replace those stock metal buttons with aftermarket ebony buttons, or white pearloid if you don't want ebony. (I just checked with Steve Wark at Allparts, who confirmed for me that the aftermarket buttons available for Schaller tuners will fit on these older tuners.)

But other than that I think I'd just leave it alone and enjoy it for what it is.

Hope that makes sense.

Wade Hampton Miller

Wade Hampton · #19 07-12-2016, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbgroove

Thanks guys, I'm learning here! So, based on the pictures and video I posted can you say if this guitar has Double X bracing or the older style?

Yep, thar she blows - that's the double X:

˙˙˙

whm

sunbgroove · #20 07-12-2016, 02:43 PM

Ahhh ok...thanks.... I actually feel better! I appreciate your advice on the tuners. Points well taken. This is a player, so no worries leaving those on for now and putting in some good enjoyable miles! That pick guard is another story!

Sean

Dave Abrahamson · #21 07-12-2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Yep, thar she blows - that's the double X:

˙˙˙

whm

Looks like the ball ends on the strings have mostly pulled through the monster bridge plate as well.

00-28 · #22 07-12-2016, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Yep, thar she blows - that's the double X:

˙˙˙

whm

Those look like the tone bars to me, not the "X" braces.

.......Mike

#23 07-12-2016, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llew

Thanks Todd...I had no clue. But I have too ask...why? Seems they would just confuse everyone...okay...maybe just me? Were they trying to compete directly with Martin's square shoulder standard dreads?

Two words...Gibson and Norlin.

Wade Hampton · #24 07-12-2016, 03:43 PM

Sean wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbgroove

Ahhh ok...thanks.... I actually feel better! I appreciate your advice on the tuners. Points well taken. This is a player, so no worries leaving those on for now and putting in some good enjoyable miles! That pick guard is another story!

Well, it's not the original pickguard, but it appears to have been on there for a while. If you replace it you might want to get something slightly oversized, because otherwise you'll have a tanline showing anyplace that the new pickguard doesn't cover.

if you really feel compelled to have some work done on it, the two areas I'd address would be swapping out the adjustable saddle rig for a carved bone saddle, and I'd probably replace that Dean Markley piezo pickup for a K&K pickup in the same spot on the bridgeplate. The K&K Pure Mini pickup is a hotter and more accurate-sounding pickup, while that Dean Markley is probably twenty or thirty years old.

But if you are thinking of having some more elaborate work done, I just spoke with Scott Baxendale at Baxendale Guitar. Scott has made sort of a specialty of taking old solid wood Harmony guitars and rebracing their tops, to excellent results. He's also taken old Gibson LG-1's and changed them from ladder braced to X braced.

http://baxendaleguitar.com/index.html

Scott's never converted a Norlin-era Double X-braced Gibson J-45, and didn't seem giddily excited at the thought of doing that, frankly. However, he said it could be done, though it would easily run a thousand dollars to do the work.

His suggestion is that you'd get the best tonal results for the least amount of money spent if you were to swap out the adjustable saddle rig, nothing more.

Hope this helps.

Wade Hampton Miller

Nctom · #25 07-12-2016, 05:45 PM

I had a '70-71 J-45 for ten years or so that always confused me. It was square shouldered like yours but had a nonadjustable bridge, a small(er) bridgeplate, and a beautiful three color sunburst. Unfortunately, it came with the socks in place and ,even though I kept it forever, it never opened up and sounded the same as new. It was great looking, though.

sunbgroove · #26 07-12-2016, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the info Wade. I am very happy with the way guitar sounds currently but might contact Scott for an older project that is languishing. The pick guard is just a self-stick temporary until I make a good replacement. The original was broken. I have placed an order with Stu Mac for a blank. I did play one 4hr show with the guitar a couple of months ago and the pickup was not appealing.... at all! Thanks. Will look into the K&K. I'll need to check the impedance as I play through the LR Baggs Para DI..

Hmmm. Just found these pictures online of a 70's Gibson (different model obviously) with double X bracing. The plan drawing is much closer to what the top bracing looks like on my guitar.

sunbgroove · #27 07-12-2016, 06:08 PM

Thanks, NcTom. This one has a nice open tone.. and sounds clear and articulate when picking. I have been reading about these socks you mention, but I think I lucked out there!

sunbgroove · #28 07-13-2016, 05:07 AM

Woke up this morning to a nice email response from Jon at Gibson. That was fast!

The guitar is a very early 1970 model that was built prior to the changes (with the adjustable saddle and no double X bracing).

Being that I am a bit a history nut, I find this quite interesting and it has me wondering how many other 1970 J-45s without double x bracing are floating around out there...............

Thank you for your help and comments!

Rmz76 · #29 07-14-2016, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbgroove

Woke up this morning to a nice email response from Jon at Gibson. That was fast!

The guitar is a very early 1970 model that was built prior to the changes (with the adjustable saddle and no double X bracing).

Being that I am a bit a history nut, I find this quite interesting and it has me wondering how many other 1970 J-45s without double x bracing are floating around out there...............

Thank you for your help and comments!

Very interesting. Gruhn's list "non-adjustable saddle, double-X bracing: 1970". I noticed when doing a serial # search on yours that it doesn't return an exact date or factory. It's list "Kalamazoo-Memphis" where as generally it identifies the serial as coming from one or the other.... I'm wondering if the double X bracing began when production started in Tennessee.

How does it sound? Can you record a sample or two?

sunbgroove · #30 07-14-2016, 07:17 PM

Sure!

Ok, here goes..... I placed one microphone in front of the 12th fret and hit record. Strings are coated SIT 13s. Have not setup the guitar as of yet. As per the pictures in this thread, the bridge is lifting at the back and ball ends are pulling through the bridge. The guitar came with worn out cheap plastic pegs which I will replace when I do the setup. Any suggestions on what the best pegs are for a J-45?

Please excuse my shoddy playing!