Thoughts on SBT for T5

dcopper · #1 07-16-2019, 01:30 PM

Hi all,
I have one of the original Taylor T5 guitars that were made in 2005. There has always been a lot of buzz about the T5 and I have written about my experiences with the T5 extensively over the years. The T5 is unusual in that it has 2 strap buttons on the lower bout. One strap button is actually the output of the T5 electronics. The other is just a strap button.

Several years back I added an LR Baggs Element Active u/s pickup and ran the output out of the unused strap button (now a T6). The element was ok but had the usual distortion of an u/s, but not a bad pickup. Then I installed a JJB pickup and I have not been impressed - the output is much lower in comparison to my K&K pm pickups I have in 2 other Taylors.

So now I am thinking about maybe just installing the K&K pm, or maybe a Dazzo pickup. Just thought I would like to hear some opinions on whether the K&K or Dazzo would work better in a T5. A T5 is a thin hollow body “hybrid” if you are not familiar with the guitar.

I have learned to get pretty nice “T5 tone” using the 5 way T5 pickups, but wanted to add something more acoustic. It is simple to install SBTs since you can take the back off the T5 to access the guitar. I also have a synth pickup I can add that turns the T5 into a T7.

Davidc

martingitdave · #2 07-16-2019, 03:03 PM

I've used both K&K and Dazzo pickups. In your application, the K&K might be a better choice. The Dazzo picks up a lot of high end, and I'm not sure how that would sound in a thin body guitar. Have you considered some of the archtop guitar pickup options?

dcopper · #3 07-16-2019, 07:50 PM

The Dazzo claims to be more high fidelity so that makes sense. I think I will stick with the K&K. I did not look into the arch top pickups since it has an acoustic bridge. I just think the JJB has a much lower output and I want something with much more presence.
Thanks Dave

jonfields45 · #4 07-17-2019, 05:45 AM

A JJB is not dramatically lower in output compared to a K&K and you might benefit from an active pickup where you can set the volume given you have the T5's 9v battery to tap. The active HFN has a trim POT you can set at installation.

dcopper · #5 07-17-2019, 05:59 AM

Jon,
Thanks that sounds like another good option. My experience between my K&K 814 and 914 and the T5 with JJB pickup is that the JJB is about half the output or at least an easily noticeable difference.
I once had the HFN active and maybe will give that another look.
Thanks for the tip!
Davidc

Cochese · #6 07-18-2019, 11:20 AM

I seem to recall someone putting a K&K in a T5 and it not working well but I can't remember where I read it. Personally I really dislike the K&K. It can sound good but is feedback prone for louder gigs and I gave up trying to remove it from my 612 and just cut the wires. In a T5 you should be able to install it easily. I've always though that perhaps the Trance system would be nice in the T5 but never got around to it.

My T5 has the Wavelength pickup (didn't you have that one as well dcopper?) and that works quite well for me though usually I run the electric side through a SansAmp Liverpool and Bogner Blue for solos and the Wavelength goes through either a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ or the Baggs Session DI. I run both sounds at the same time for the most part, since it is a hybrid after all.

For all my struggles with the T5 over the years I finally came to the conclusion that much of my issues with sound had to do with how my system was usually set up too close to me and how I was monitoring myself.

Doug Young had posted some comments on the K&K, Dazzo and Trance. I'm not sure if they will be applicable to a T5 installation but may be of some help. https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...15&postcount=4

dcopper · #7 07-19-2019, 08:25 AM

Thanks Cochese,
I did in fact have a Koa T5 Custom with a DTar Wavelength pickup and it did work well.
I installed the JJB easily since you can access everything after removing the back panel. This T5 I still have is a black T5 spruce top and I initially installed an Element active pickup that sounded good, but just had the limitations of most undersaddle piezo pickups. I think the K&K will work a bit better than the JJB because at least from my two other Taylors with K&Kpms, the K&K have a hotter output. I was also looking at the Highlander pickup as well, which of course is another undersaddle but has a different design and some players are getting good results from it.
I learned to like and live with the T5 tone but just would like something I can swap out for my 814 coco and 914 that have K&K pms installed.
Davidc

Cochese · #8 07-19-2019, 12:23 PM

Let us know how the K&K works out.

guitararmy · #9 07-19-2019, 01:26 PM

I have a T5, and the top seems thicker than your average acoustic guitar.
This might adversely effect the sound of a soundboard pickup...

dcopper · #10 08-12-2019, 06:58 AM

Hi all,
This is just a follow up to my original post. My goal was to remove the JJB pickups from the bridge plate and replace them with a K&K that has a hotter output. It was my experience that the JJB pickup had a significantly lower output even when super glued properly. So I bought a solvent off Amazon specifically that dissolves super glue, applied it and with minimal effort from a flat razor blade, removed the JJB pickups.

With the T5 of course, you remove the plastic back and have the bridge plate at your disposal so it was very easy to install the K&K. There is no doubt the K&K pm sounded fuller, warmer and had a much hotter output than the JJB. I wanted the output to match the K&K pickups in my other guitars and now it does. I am very happy with the improvement (no slight against JJB and their truly excellent customer service).

BUT, I did not stop there. The T5 is a thin bodied guitar. I had an LR Baggs Active Element available and I installed the Element pickup and routed the output to the second strap pin position (T5 has two strap pins). What I found is that the active pickup really makes up for the thin body of the T5. Both the Element pickup (even with the fact that it is an undersaddle piezo) and the K&K pickups have given the T5 (now T7) the additional versatility of as more acoustic voice.

I have written on this forum extensively about the T5 being its own animal and the T5 5 way electronics are very workable once you understand and accept that it will not be a Strat/Tele or acoustic - it is a T5 and has its own voice. That all being said, my renewed quest was due to the recent hype on the Fender Acoustasonic Tele and the Doyle Dykes signature model by Godin.

I like the feel of the Taylor much better and the playability is excellent. To me, the two additional pickups which I can blend or just pick one, give the guitar an excellent and warm acoustic voice. I also can go back to the original T5 pickups just by switching outputs. One additional thing I did was change to Elixir 12-53 Acoustic strings. The PB strings give the guitar that added acoustic flavor. Normally I would use 12-52 electric strings because the T5 electronics play more nicely with electric strings even though the guitar was designed for both types of strings.

My T5 is from 2005 and was a first run of the guitar. Doyle Dykes handed it to me at a road show and said - “you are gonna love this”. Not that I knew him or he knew me, just was a good endorsement.
Davidc

dcopper · #11 08-12-2019, 08:34 AM

I should have mentioned that the Element pickup was a “re-install” which I had originally removed and replaced with the JJB pickup. I decided to re-install because it was an easy install and if I need it especially for flat picking, it is available. My go-to added pickup is the K&K pm. I can outboard it to a RedEye or use a RedEye twin as a blender if needed. It works well with the ToneDexter (and I will make a wavemap specific to the T5) and MXR pedals on one pedalboard as well as the HX Stomp which is now my go to solo pedalboard.
Davidc

subby · #12 10-26-2020, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcopper

I should have mentioned that the Element pickup was a “re-install” which I had originally removed and replaced with the JJB pickup. I decided to re-install because it was an easy install and if I need it especially for flat picking, it is available. My go-to added pickup is the K&K pm. I can outboard it to a RedEye or use a RedEye twin as a blender if needed. It works well with the ToneDexter (and I will make a wavemap specific to the T5) and MXR pedals on one pedalboard as well as the HX Stomp which is now my go to solo pedalboard.
Davidc

Sorry to necro an old thread, but to be clear, you added two new pickups to the existing T5 pickups, or you replaced the existing T5 pickup with the Element and added the K&K?

dcopper · #13 10-27-2020, 09:35 AM

I added two new pickups - the K&Kpm and the Element Active, so it is now a T7, unless I put my Roland synth pickup on - then it is a T8. I have never removed or modified the stock T5 pickup.

subby · #14 10-27-2020, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcopper

I added two new pickups - the K&Kpm and the Element Active, so it is now a T7, unless I put my Roland synth pickup on - then it is a T8. I have never removed or modified the stock T5 pickup.

Very interesting. So if you're performing and you're trying to get the most true acoustic sound, are you blending the K&k and Element? Do you have three pickup outputs coming off the guitar now?