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  #91  
Old 03-05-2021, 11:05 PM
seannx seannx is offline
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Earl, it’s too bad we don’t live closer. My X20 was from the first run of the new design with the pinless bridge, in the same finish as yours, and has a nice balanced sound with EJ16s. It’s very similar to my RainSong with a little more base, and not harsh at all. I prefer a shorter scale length, and have an X20 on order with a 24.875" neck. When it arrives I can A/B it with the 25 1/2" version I already have, and let you know if it’s more harsh sounding.
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  #92  
Old 03-06-2021, 01:37 AM
sumokids sumokids is offline
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Earl -- I feel for you! I also have an older X20 (2013) and it's fantastic. It's disappointing and baffling to see that Emerald hasn't taken better care of you on this, especially given that you're an established return customer and Emerald's customer service has been heralded in the past. I'm sure this goes without saying, but I assume that you've talked with Alistair directly about the issue? I had a problem with an X7 that I ordered and found out quickly that Emerald is lacking an experienced, professional, customer-focused front end, but once I dealt with Alistair all was taken care of quickly. If I was Alistair and read that a customer like you was done with Emerald, I'd be working pretty hard to make things right. I've been a big Emerald fan over the years, but based on your experience I'd definitely be wary of ordering a custom in the future.
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  #93  
Old 03-06-2021, 11:36 AM
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My first short scale guitar was a RainSong Shorty. While I no longer have it, that guitar taught me what I previously did not know; I have a preference for shorter and/or 12 fret guitars and my last to purchases stay true to that preference.

I've mentioned on this forum multiple times that I've been dreaming of a short-scale X20. Not only this, I think that Emerald would actually even benefit from having a stock option for both of their largest guitars that are short scale. I also read on here all the time how much AGF'ers love short scale guitars, wood or CF so I don't believe my preferences are necessarily in the minority.

I would be curious the tonal qualities of a short scale X20, where the bridge was also relocated to the center of the lower bout much like the X7 or any of the 12 fret RainSongs. If such a guitar was A/B'd with an X20 where only the neck was shortened (like in the case of Earl's X20 in this review) would we hear a clear tonal difference?

I suspect the answer would be yes but I don't want to fund the research and development. I just think Emerald should "build it and they will come".
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  #94  
Old 03-25-2021, 05:23 PM
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Earl, did you try the Plectrums? On my older X-20 (2017 vintage), they are very balanced but not very loud but since I don’t play out, it’s not a big concern.
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  #95  
Old 03-26-2021, 06:44 AM
seannx seannx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelvibe View Post
My first short scale guitar was a RainSong Shorty. While I no longer have it, that guitar taught me what I previously did not know; I have a preference for shorter and/or 12 fret guitars and my last to purchases stay true to that preference.

I've mentioned on this forum multiple times that I've been dreaming of a short-scale X20. Not only this, I think that Emerald would actually even benefit from having a stock option for both of their largest guitars that are short scale. I also read on here all the time how much AGF'ers love short scale guitars, wood or CF so I don't believe my preferences are necessarily in the minority.

I would be curious the tonal qualities of a short scale X20, where the bridge was also relocated to the center of the lower bout much like the X7 or any of the 12 fret RainSongs. If such a guitar was A/B'd with an X20 where only the neck was shortened (like in the case of Earl's X20 in this review) would we hear a clear tonal difference?

I suspect the answer would be yes but I don't want to fund the research and development. I just think Emerald should "build it and they will come".
This is from my "NGD Emerald X20 Artisan Short Scale" thread:
Quote:
Am really pleased with my new short scale X20. It’s so comfortable to play, and the tone is great. Due to some of the comments about bridge placement, and how Emerald modifies the design on a short scale custom build, I carefully measured both of my X20s last night.

My new one has a 24.875” scale length, the same as my RainSong (which is also a 12 fret), that makes for a 5/8” difference from the stock 25 1/2” length. The neck on the short scale joins the body just to the left of the 14th fret, and the standard model just to the right, so 1/8” difference there. The other 1/2” is from a shift in the bridge position.

Emerald could certainly offer a standard short scale model, but that would require a uniform distance, like 25”, 24.875", 24.6”, etc. To escape a $550 upcharge, I might have been okay with 25”, but not 24.6”, and from playing my Martin and RainSong, I know what’s the sweet spot for me.
From following Earl’s posts, I was concerned about the tonal problems he’s documented. I bought one of the new design X20s last August, because I didn’t want to wait for a custom build, and also see if I would be okay with the 25 1/2” scale. That guitar has none of the overly bright, harsh tonal qualities Earl chronicles, and neither does the new one. Strung with EJ16 PBs, the sound is similar to my RainSong and stock pinless X20. It’s not even that different in brightness from my Martin 00-18 when the RH is below 50%.

The scale length on Earl’s guitar is 24.6”, another .275” shorter than mine. One thing I’ve noticed, is that with offset sound hole, there isn’t the same visual reference as my with other acoustics for strumming. Also, only 1/8” of the 5/8” difference between my new and stock X20 is at the neck/body joint. The other 1/2” is from a shift in the bridge position. From Steelvibe's post, it sounds like all of the 0.9” difference in Earl’s X20 is where the neck meets the body.
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  #96  
Old 04-02-2021, 07:02 AM
domen domen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seannx View Post
...The scale length on Earl’s guitar is 24.6”, another .275” shorter than mine. One thing I’ve noticed, is that with offset sound hole, there isn’t the same visual reference as my with other acoustics for strumming. Also, only 1/8” of the 5/8” difference between my new and stock X20 is at the neck/body joint. The other 1/2” is from a shift in the bridge position. From Steelvibe's post, it sounds like all of the 0.9” difference in Earl’s X20 is where the neck meets the body.
it would be really interesting to be able to compare, via image, these guitars in order to understand how they create a shorter scale guitar: how much and how is the bridge moved?
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  #97  
Old 04-02-2021, 09:45 AM
new2guitar_eh new2guitar_eh is offline
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Hi Earl,

Wondering where things stand with your X20....did you decide to ship it back to Emerald?
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  #98  
Old 04-02-2021, 10:23 AM
seannx seannx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domen View Post
it would be really interesting to be able to compare, via image, these guitars in order to understand how they create a shorter scale guitar: how much and how is the bridge moved?
In person it looks like the neck on my 24.875" short scale meets the body at the edge of the 14th fret on the neck side, and the standard 25 1/2” meets the body on the other edge of the same fret. I took photos of where the neck meets the body on both guitars, but the 1/8” difference there is hard to tell because of the gloss finish and curved edges, so they aren’t much use. The other 1/2” is from a shift in the bridge position.

Earl’s X20 has a 24.6” scale, 0.9” shorter than a standard X20, compared to the 0.625” difference from the stock 25 1/2” length on mine. And from the info on this thread, it sounds like the 0.9” difference occurs where the body meets the neck, with no shift in the bridge position.

Both of my X20s have a similar sound quality like my RainSong. Strung with PB J16s they are clear and warm, with a nice full bass. My youngest son is an excellent guitarist, and he really likes how the X20s sound. His main acoustic is the Martin SW00-DB Machiche in my signature, so he has a good base for comparison.

This is pure speculation, but I wonder if Earl’s new X20's problem sound could be due to taking all of the scale length difference from where the neck meets the body, with no shift in bridge position. It’s also possible that there is something else happening with that specific guitar.
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Taylor 414ce Sitka/Walnut 2010 Spring Limited
Martin SW00-DB Machiche
1968 Guild F-112
Rickenbacher Lap Steel
Vox SDC-33
Eastman T185MX
G&L ASAT Classic USA Butterscotch Blonde
Taylor T5Z Pro LTD
Strandberg Boden Original 6
RainSong Concert Hybrid Orchestra Model 12 Fret
Emerald X20
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  #99  
Old 04-02-2021, 10:39 AM
domen domen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seannx View Post
In person it looks like the neck on my 24.875" short scale meets the body at the edge of the 14th fret on the neck side, and the standard 25 1/2” meets the body on the other edge of the same fret. I took photos of where the neck meets the body on both guitars, but the 1/8” difference there is hard to tell because of the gloss finish and curved edges, so they aren’t much use. The other 1/2” is from a shift in the bridge position.

Earl’s X20 has a 24.6” scale, 0.9” shorter than a standard X20, compared to the 0.625” difference from the stock 25 1/2” length on mine. And from the info on this thread, it sounds like the 0.9” difference occurs where the body meets the neck, with no shift in the bridge position.

Both of my X20s have a similar sound quality like my RainSong. Strung with PB J16s they are clear and warm, with a nice full bass. My youngest son is an excellent guitarist, and he really likes how the X20s sound. His main acoustic is the Martin SW00-DB Machiche in my signature, so he has a good base for comparison.

This is pure speculation, but I wonder if Earl’s new X20's problem sound could be due to taking all of the scale length difference from where the neck meets the body, with no shift in bridge position. It’s also possible that there is something else happening with that specific guitar.
this is an interesting hypothesis (relating to Earl's guitar) but only he will be able to confirm it, maybe posting some photos in order to verify the position of the bridge. However, I believe that, if that were the case (a design error), Earl would have already reported it and the guitar would already be at Cavanacaw totally at Emerald's expense, but it seems that it is not.
I have already written it everywhere and I am sorry to repeat it for those who have already read: I am waiting for an x20 with 24 "scale length and 12 frets. In theory the bridge will have to be moved considerably. Surely we will be able to resume this exchange of ideas when my x20 will be here (I will post some photos for comparison), awaiting Earl's opinion, if he deems it appropriate to tell us more about the position of the bridge on its x20 short scale.
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  #100  
Old 04-02-2021, 11:56 AM
seannx seannx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domen View Post
this is an interesting hypothesis (relating to Earl's guitar) but only he will be able to confirm it, maybe posting some photos in order to verify the position of the bridge. However, I believe that, if that were the case (a design error), Earl would have already reported it and the guitar would already be at Cavanacaw totally at Emerald's expense, but it seems that it is not.
I have already written it everywhere and I am sorry to repeat it for those who have already read: I am waiting for an x20 with 24 "scale length and 12 frets. In theory the bridge will have to be moved considerably. Surely we will be able to resume this exchange of ideas when my x20 will be here (I will post some photos for comparison), awaiting Earl's opinion, if he deems it appropriate to tell us more about the position of the bridge on its x20 short scale.
I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Kevin said they move the bridge on 12 frets.
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Taylor 414ce Sitka/Walnut 2010 Spring Limited
Martin SW00-DB Machiche
1968 Guild F-112
Rickenbacher Lap Steel
Vox SDC-33
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G&L ASAT Classic USA Butterscotch Blonde
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  #101  
Old 04-02-2021, 12:23 PM
domen domen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seannx View Post
I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Kevin said they move the bridge on 12 frets.
I think it was me. I asked him but he just answered a short "yes" with no further details. When I understand that he is very busy I don't insist for not becoming annoying
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  #102  
Old 04-02-2021, 07:15 PM
seannx seannx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domen View Post
I think it was me. I asked him but he just answered a short "yes" with no further details. When I understand that he is very busy I don't insist for not becoming annoying
I thought that might have been you
I understand about Kevin being busy. Maybe an email would give him more time to respond without pressure.
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1950 Martin 00-18
Voyage-Air VAD-2
Taylor 414ce Sitka/Walnut 2010 Spring Limited
Martin SW00-DB Machiche
1968 Guild F-112
Rickenbacher Lap Steel
Vox SDC-33
Eastman T185MX
G&L ASAT Classic USA Butterscotch Blonde
Taylor T5Z Pro LTD
Strandberg Boden Original 6
RainSong Concert Hybrid Orchestra Model 12 Fret
Emerald X20
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